> I agree with this, but I also think this is such a “peace time” opinion.
It is, and the two examples below aren't comparable, you want a real-life recent example?
Look at Hong Kong and Taiwan: since at least the early 2000s after the hand over to the CCP in 97 many in HK knew the writing was on the wall of what Life would be like (look at films like 10 years for the most stark and sobering use of foreshadowing I have ever seen since maybe the works about East Germany). In the case of HK you have an affluent, highly educated population focused on what you think most modern developed nations seek: careers, status, salary, etc...
Their fight was a valiant one, starting in earnest in 2014 with the Umbrella Revolution, but the sad truth is HK was never in a capacity to thwart a real attack from the CCP in any real capacity since it's population didn't have any combat training or knowledge beyond the ad-hoc problems solving they were left with, coupled that with being unarmed and then seeing how Russia has invaded Ukraine and you can see why a similarly affluent and well educated country like Taiwan has had a massive up-tick in civilian combat and weapons training.
I'd hate to even contemplate what it would take to require the civilian mobilization in the US as even a thought exercise because f the obvious realities, but at that level I think we saw enough evidence from COVID how polarized people are in Society that I doubt how effective that even would be, and that is not even mentioning how unfit people are to be of any use in such situations given how prevalent obesity is in the Country.
> Again, I agree the draft is immoral, but so is war.
This is the conclusion any sane person comes to, and you'd think during/after COVID we would have come out with a better understanding of just fragile our World really is and how quickly it can turn to utter chaos because of unnecessary fragmentation that you'd think we would collectively regard War as the scourge of Mankind and yet some how it persists. It wasn't long into 2021 that Israel and Palestine were starting to kill each other again.
The REAL question is how to render War moot in modern Society, and my only conclusion is to elevate all of Humanity's standard of living such that they have a greater vested interest in stability and diplomacy as the sole form of conflict resolution rather than default to our basic instincts of tribalism that always leads to the perpetual senseless destruction of people and property at the behest of a political class and a few multi-national weapons dealers who profit from it.
If War is indeed immoral, than one has to also realize that War is the health of the State [0].
> Other than the omnipresent paranoia, the thing that struck me as the most bizarre is that almost nothing in the country is oriented around children. The fertility rate is basically the lowest in the world, as the way of maintaining the population seems to be simply skimming the top few percent of qualified workers from India, China, and other southeast Asian countries, people who will essentially live at the office until they have made enough money to return home, or simply retire and die alone in the country.
I've been revisiting Brave New World after watching the series on something called 'Peacock,' which honestly bares little resemblance to the plot of the book (John the Savage is less a cautionary tale of these types of Societys and more Revolutionary apparently) and the ideas of acceptable Dystopias by Huxley in his presentations at Berkely were brought up. One woman asking why only Tyrannical Governments would use these methods, and could they not also be used by so-called 'democratic' institutions for the same end. Huxley scoffs the idea as greater 'pessimism' than he holds.
The idea of being encumbered by replacement rates with fertility seems blase if you can simply import a perpetual underclass for what you cannot outsource to serve your affluent Citizen class seems like the long-term goals of any despot/regime. That would probably ensure long-standing dynasties, and political stability more than anything imaginable, as dark as that is it aptly reflects the current Human Condition. In a way I think this was the US' goal in the 21st Century as we've seen the shortage of STEM really be a Cooperate driven regression in wages (and probably working conditions) for its domestic population.
With that said, you can see what the opposite can create as Hong Kong has descended in to the most typical (accurate?) representation of a Cyberpunk Dystopia. Its entirely tragic to see, but Human resilience against all odds against a tyrannical juggernaut (China/CCP) is still something to take solace in and an archetype for a Heroism in all cultures. Even as it dissects everything unique and of value in that city-state its worth paying attention to serve as the cautionary tale of how primitive Humans still are.
For even more context (masochistic watching), consider 10 years [1] on Netflix, who recently refused to take down that and Joshua Wong's Documentary [2] on the events in Hong Kong.
Hacker Cinema
2 comments on Hacker News
> I agree with this, but I also think this is such a “peace time” opinion.
It is, and the two examples below aren't comparable, you want a real-life recent example?
Look at Hong Kong and Taiwan: since at least the early 2000s after the hand over to the CCP in 97 many in HK knew the writing was on the wall of what Life would be like (look at films like 10 years for the most stark and sobering use of foreshadowing I have ever seen since maybe the works about East Germany). In the case of HK you have an affluent, highly educated population focused on what you think most modern developed nations seek: careers, status, salary, etc...
Their fight was a valiant one, starting in earnest in 2014 with the Umbrella Revolution, but the sad truth is HK was never in a capacity to thwart a real attack from the CCP in any real capacity since it's population didn't have any combat training or knowledge beyond the ad-hoc problems solving they were left with, coupled that with being unarmed and then seeing how Russia has invaded Ukraine and you can see why a similarly affluent and well educated country like Taiwan has had a massive up-tick in civilian combat and weapons training.
I'd hate to even contemplate what it would take to require the civilian mobilization in the US as even a thought exercise because f the obvious realities, but at that level I think we saw enough evidence from COVID how polarized people are in Society that I doubt how effective that even would be, and that is not even mentioning how unfit people are to be of any use in such situations given how prevalent obesity is in the Country.
> Again, I agree the draft is immoral, but so is war.
This is the conclusion any sane person comes to, and you'd think during/after COVID we would have come out with a better understanding of just fragile our World really is and how quickly it can turn to utter chaos because of unnecessary fragmentation that you'd think we would collectively regard War as the scourge of Mankind and yet some how it persists. It wasn't long into 2021 that Israel and Palestine were starting to kill each other again.
The REAL question is how to render War moot in modern Society, and my only conclusion is to elevate all of Humanity's standard of living such that they have a greater vested interest in stability and diplomacy as the sole form of conflict resolution rather than default to our basic instincts of tribalism that always leads to the perpetual senseless destruction of people and property at the behest of a political class and a few multi-national weapons dealers who profit from it.
If War is indeed immoral, than one has to also realize that War is the health of the State [0].
0: https://www.newsweek.com/war-health-state-151813
> Other than the omnipresent paranoia, the thing that struck me as the most bizarre is that almost nothing in the country is oriented around children. The fertility rate is basically the lowest in the world, as the way of maintaining the population seems to be simply skimming the top few percent of qualified workers from India, China, and other southeast Asian countries, people who will essentially live at the office until they have made enough money to return home, or simply retire and die alone in the country.
I've been revisiting Brave New World after watching the series on something called 'Peacock,' which honestly bares little resemblance to the plot of the book (John the Savage is less a cautionary tale of these types of Societys and more Revolutionary apparently) and the ideas of acceptable Dystopias by Huxley in his presentations at Berkely were brought up. One woman asking why only Tyrannical Governments would use these methods, and could they not also be used by so-called 'democratic' institutions for the same end. Huxley scoffs the idea as greater 'pessimism' than he holds.
The idea of being encumbered by replacement rates with fertility seems blase if you can simply import a perpetual underclass for what you cannot outsource to serve your affluent Citizen class seems like the long-term goals of any despot/regime. That would probably ensure long-standing dynasties, and political stability more than anything imaginable, as dark as that is it aptly reflects the current Human Condition. In a way I think this was the US' goal in the 21st Century as we've seen the shortage of STEM really be a Cooperate driven regression in wages (and probably working conditions) for its domestic population.
With that said, you can see what the opposite can create as Hong Kong has descended in to the most typical (accurate?) representation of a Cyberpunk Dystopia. Its entirely tragic to see, but Human resilience against all odds against a tyrannical juggernaut (China/CCP) is still something to take solace in and an archetype for a Heroism in all cultures. Even as it dissects everything unique and of value in that city-state its worth paying attention to serve as the cautionary tale of how primitive Humans still are.
For even more context (masochistic watching), consider 10 years [1] on Netflix, who recently refused to take down that and Joshua Wong's Documentary [2] on the events in Hong Kong.
1: https://www.netflix.com/title/81012294
2: https://www.netflix.com/title/80169348