Hacker Cinema
Chinatown
1974 · Film · 130 min
Directed by Roman Polanski
Private eye Jake Gittes lives off of the murky moral climate of sunbaked, pre-World War II Southern California. Hired by a beautiful socialite to investigate her husband's extra-marital affair, Gittes is swept into a maelstrom of double dealings and deadly deceits, uncovering a web of personal and political scandals that come crashing together.
18 positive1 negative28 neutralfrom 47 commenters
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48 comments on Hacker News
What you are doing is not maturity, but compartmentalisation. If you simply refuse to hear a single piece of evidence of, say, Michael Jackson’s pedophilia, or Roman Polanski’s repeated rape accusations, you are choosing willful ignorance, especially since often the artist’s status and fame make their criminal behaviour possible and provides them shelter from prosecution.
I myself am far from innocent of this. For more than 20 years Polanski has been, and in many ways still is, my favourite film maker. Repulsion, Tenant, Chinatown etc. are masterpieces of cinema. But they are inherently, even on plot level (at least in the case of Chinatown) intertwined with the horror of his actions. There is no virtue signalling in my personal connection to his set of work (who would even care anyway), but for me to continue pretend I know nothing about his behaviour or that it doesn’t directly inflect upon his work would be deeply dishonest.
This is like the movie Chinatown, where people were fighting over water, but now it's all about electricity.
It sounds like Lake Tahoe residents kicked the can down the road and didn't care about electricity for so long that now they have to pay the piper. I think it's entire just that they have to bear the costs of their own electricity.
Reminds me of when I was talking to friends about the film Chinatown and I referred to it as a movie about the California water war and someone else said “dude, that’s not what that film is about”.
We were both correct.
Or another kind of take:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071315/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_8_nm_0_in_0_q_chinato
(Chinatown)
Thanks! Here's the full list: 2001: A Space Odyssey, 8½, Aguirre the Wrath of God, Ali: Fear Eats the Soul, All That Heaven Allows, Apocalypse Now, Ashes and Diamonds, A Woman Under the Influence, Barry Lyndon, Bicycle Thieves, Breathless, Casablanca, Céline and Julie Go Boating, Chinatown, Chinese Roulette, Citizen Kane, City Lights, City of Pirates, Contempt, Daisies, Damnation, Dishonored, Earth, Electra My Love, El Topo, Eraserhead, Eyes Wide Shut, Film Socialisme, Fitzcarraldo, Fuego en Castilla, Hiroshima Mon Amour, Holy Motors, Inauguration of the Pleasure Dome, In a Year with 13 Moons, India Song, Inland Empire, Irma Vep, Koyaanisqatsi, La Dolce Vita, La Jetée, Late Spring, L'Eau de la Seine, Le Voyage dans la Lune, Lolita, Los Olvidados, Lost Highway, Lucifer Rising, Man with a Movie Camera, Metropolis, Mirror, Mulholland Drive, Night Music, Ordet, Orpheus, Persona, Pickpocket, Playtime, Psycho, Rebecca, Rosemary's Baby, Rumble Fish, Scarface, Seven Samurai, Sherlock Jr., Singin' in the Rain, Stalker, Sunset Boulevard, Taste of Cherry, Taxi Driver, Testament of Orpheus, The 400 Blows, The Blood of a Poet, The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, The Color of Pomegranates, The Green Ray, The Holy Mountain, The Isle, The Lady from Shanghai, The Night of the Hunter, The Passion of Joan of Arc, The Seventh Seal, The Spirit of the Beehive, The Tales of Hoffmann, The Tree of Life, The Turin Horse, Time of the Gypsies, Tokyo Story, Touch of Evil, Trans-Europ-Express, Ugetsu, Un Chien Andalou, Uncle Boonmee Who Can Recall His Past Lives, Vampyr, Videodrome, Wavelength, Werckmeister Harmonies, Wild Strawberries, Moonlight Sonata, Stellar, The Haunted House Biased toward European art cinema, experimental work, and directors who broke conventional narrative rules.
It’s not a story driven movie, it’s a movie about a stylized subculture and youth. Compare it to Dazed & Confused instead of Chinatown.
The point is to make you want to hang out with those people on those days and it does that tremendously well.
If you disagree your a flake.
HBO cancelled Perry Mason, one of the better done noir detective series. That was kind of the nail in the coffin for me. I still get it free because of my AT&T subscription, but I can't argue that Netflix has really come out with anything really worth watching either - Department Q and Mindhunter are only two that I think of that were decent.
I agree that the majority of stuff on streaming services is complete garbage and nothing is really "binge worthy" like it used to be. The one thing I used to love about Netlfix was going back and watching old movies like Chinatown or To Live and Die in LA. Those are all gone now, replaced with its own produced content that I just think isn't in the same league.
It would be difficult. Aside from the characters and the cast, one of the biggest heroes of the movie was the script. It was dense with irony, jokes about the noir genre, straight man/funny man jokes and physical humor. You don't need the original cast to make a new Chinatown comedy with toons. It's a matter of assembling a story that's interesting and funny, with associated recognizable cartoon characters.
It didn't specify if fresh water meant non-salt water from a natural water source, or treated drinkable water. I'd need to see the rainfall averages for the region the data center is in, susceptibility to drought to know how much of a problem this actually is. Data center locations are often chosen based on cooling costs, availability of greener electricity, water, etc. This blanket statement, "only 3% of the world is fresh water" is pointless and alarmist language because a good portion of the world is desert or arid. Some places have very little water, others have an over-abundance, and location matters. Most of the water problems regarding access to clean water and access to drinkable water have more to do with over populating a region because of the nice weather (LA, CA for example) beyond what is sustainable or practical. Putting a data center in Illinois or something has very little do to with the problems of access to water in southern CA, where movies like Chinatown as far back as the 70s depicts the problem of access to water being a huge problem because it gets little rainfall being close to the desert and isn't a good place to put a large populace and not have that problem.
If they're building the data center in the desert or a drought susceptible region, where fresh water usage is way past its limits, fine, but if the data center is in the Upper Midwest or parts of the Pacific NW, the consumption of water there isn't going to have any impact on the areas that have a consumption issue.
Look at all those top non-American films on that list:
1. Once Upon a Time in America
2. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
3. The Great Dictator
4. Lord of the Rings
5. Chinatown
If there's one thing you can't associate Charlie Chaplin or Jack Nicholson with, it's Hollywood.
Number 9 on your list is famous non-Hollywood filmmaker Alfred Hitchcock.
Pretty often. The article's title is a bit misleading to it's own detriment; "terraforming" brings to mind images of using massive furnaces to burn mass to release CO2 on a barren planet. What the author of this article is proposing is pretty routine relative to human societal needs, which is shifting the flow of bodies of water to get water to Nevada. I'm not a geology expert so I don't know the viability of this proposal, but it seems the author is proposing to bring flow back to rivers that have dried up at some point in the past.
I took enough geology in college to understand that humans have been shifting riverflows since at least the Ancient Egyptians (with the Nile river), and Los Angeles' vitality is a product of artificial waterflow shift (the movie Chinatown touches on this at least tangentially). If I'm not mistaken, even Hoover Dam diverts a significant amount of water that once flowed elsewhere, though many environmentalists would tell you today that dams are horribly harmful to local ecosystems.
My guess is that with climate change causing significant changes to multiple regions via weather and climate, causing massive upheavals for large swaths of populations, it might be in America's interest to consider where it could create new population centers again by shifting waterflow.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_water_wars
They already do this.
The Owens Valley was turned into a desert to divert water to LA. There are aqueducts moving water from the Colorado River to LA and Phoenix which are both hundreds of miles away from the river.
The 1974 film Chinatown was a fictionalized version of these events.
That book’s a classic for a reason! It’s a fascinating read, whether you’re a water nerd like I am or not - very accessible. I tell people to check it out if they enjoyed Chinatown, since the historical episode it drew inspiration from is so much wilder
> Pretty much east of the Sierras only for high desert right?
Yes, but most of their water goes to Los Angeles so there's less agriculture than there could be (related: the movie Chinatown)
I don't think that conclusion tells the whole story. If you take a great movie with a very famous twist in in it, they are not good because of the secret/twist, but the secret/twist definitely has greater power if you don't know it beforehand.
For example, there are some movies like The Prestige, The Crying game and The Usual Suspects there is a set up and when the twist happens, you look back and realise the movie was hinting at it at various points but you didn't expect it. If you knew, you would see the hints much more easily and the look back would not be as fun. This sort of has the same impact as a magic trick. It's fun to be fooled.
Some other movies like Se7en, Chinatown and "Easy Rider" I would call "bolt from the blue" where the impact is mostly like being punched in the guts. It's not fun but again if you are not emotionally prepared by knowing what will happen it is much more powerful.
I wouldn't say any of those had a flimsy story. In in all cases the enjoyment comes from the writing, direction, performances etc all being of a very high standard, not just from the twist. The twist really adds something though.
It's Shameless Self-Promotion Time again!
https://albertcory50.substack.com/p/culture-at-google-part-one-the-movies
I started the Cinema Club at Google, which is still going on, AFAIK. You can download the list of the 300 or so movies which I put on.
I really don't care about MCU, Harry Potter, Hollywood studios, AI, or Rotten Tomatoes. It's pointless to rage about it. Just offer an alternative. I'd rather show a great movie that no one comes to than a garbage one that attracts big crowds. Once in a while we had a film that was both: Chinatown, Rashomon.
Our reaction to anyone was, "You can start your own movie club. We'll help you; here are all the secrets." The big secret was just to ask the boss for the money; 10 in a row said Yes.
The most common thing people said to me was, "You guys show some great movies. But I have to leave to catch the shuttle!"
I rewatched this recently on HBO Max. It’s like a hippie Chinatown. I remember seeing it in theaters and being unable to follow the plot but a second viewing was a bit better. Great movie.
Very neat. Vaporwave-like. Fitting for Cali. It's like watching the movie Chinatown.
Noir: my favorite genre. Here's some color noirs I don't think have lost anything for not being in B&W: Leave Her to Heaven; Black Widow (1954); Blood Simple; Le Samouraï; Chinatown; Body Heat; Femme Fatale (2002); The Last Seduction; Thief (1981); Basic Instinct; After Dark, My Sweet.
My favorite noir however is indeed B&W: Detour (1945). To me it is the quintessential noir film.
There's even a great movie about it, called "Chinatown". It puts this real life, massive crime with unaccountable villains behind an excellent story. Gets better every time I watch it.
As I mention below: I ran the Google Cinema Club for 10 years. There were great movies that hardly anyone came to, and there were not-so-great ones that drew a big crowd. But the most satisfying thing, for me, was to put on a great film and have everyone come (for some value of "everyone")!
For Chinatown (a big crowd!) I asked for a show of hands with "How many have seen this before?" About half.
We never showed Casablanca because we figured everyone had seen it, but now I'm realizing maybe that's not true.
The movie Chinatown was also about California and water.
"The film was inspired by the California water wars, a series of disputes over southern California water at the beginning of the 20th century, by which Los Angeles interests secured water rights in the Owens Valley"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinatown_(1974_film)
> All rights and laws depend on governments and courts. That obligation is around interpretation and enforcement, not the provision of the right itself.
This distinction doesn't matter. You can't have meaningful, substantive rights, without an adequate governmental budget that is allocating resources toward your specific needs.
If you live in Chinatown (the place in the movie), then you don't have the SUBSTANTIVE right not to be murdered, because the police will enforce nothing. Your rights are taken away in reality.
But in your paper fantasy, you still have the rights because of some paper somewhere, even though you are dead.
In the real world, a right without an enforcement budget is no right at all.
I like to follow a thematic thread with books and movies. Here are a few recent ones that might interest the HN crowd:
* water issues/climate change in the Southwest:
- *Chinatown* (film) - *The Water Knife* by Paolo Bacigalupi (sci-fi novel, described as "*Chinatown* meets *Mad Max*)
- *The Cadillac Desert* by Marc Reisser (nonfiction, part of a plot element in *The Water Knife*
- *Cadillac Desert* PBS documentary[1]
* Dark espionage thrillers:
- *The Night Manager* by John LeCarre (novel, honestly not one of his best)
- *The Night Manager* (TV miniseries--much better than the book!)
- *The Ghost Writer* by Robert Harris (novel)
- *The Ghost Writer* (movie)
- *An Officer and a Spy* by Robert Harris (excellent and extensively researched historical novel, based on the Dreyfus Affair in Paris circa 1900)
- *J'Accuse (An Officer and a Spy)* (movie)
[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkbebOhnCjA
I have seen Iron Man 2, both Guardians of the Galaxy, the fist Captain America and the second Avengers movie. So it's actually five movies (one more than I thought).I might have seen part of the first Hulk on TV but I'm not entirely sure, could have been any of the other ones. I stand by my opinion.
When you consider that Hollywood produced movies like The Deer Hunter, Chinatown or even the first Jurassic Park if you want to talk about blockbusters (not the new ones they could be Marvel movies), it makes me a bit sad.
I mean, don't get me wrong. I enjoy going from McDonald's from time to time. Nothing like a bunch nuggets when you had too much to drink. I just don't go around pretending it's good food.
Hollywood's biggest film have always been adaptations of existing material. Some of the most regarded films of all time, like the Wizard of Oz, Gone with the Wind, the Godfather, Lawrence of Arabia, and Chinatown, are themselves merely adaptations of books.
I was focusing on sci-fi as more of an example. In all other areas of cinema though you had a kind of second "New Wave" in the 70's with films like "Chinatown", "The Godfather" — throw in Wood Allen's films.... My only gripe is how out of control the violence could be in that decade of filmmaking.
It amuses AND saddens me that a downvoter didn’t get the reference to “Chinatown”, an all time great film
Paraphrased: "Sports do this so schools should also work this way."
For me this is a bizarre leap, but many people love the sports analogy. I think these are the drivers and please tell me if I'm wrong.
(1) Sports clearly do a good job of finding exceptionally talented people, so maybe we should follow their playbook.
(2) People like and accept competitive sports, so emotionally they should have the same reaction to competitive academics.
On (1), there are so many ways that STEM success is not like sports.
- On an individual level, sports are literally engines for scoring performances, so progress towards success is completely observable. The highest levels of STEM success are defined by doing never-previously-observed things in highly collaborative environments with no opportunity for an exact head-to-head comparison. There is zero reason to believe that your 1,000 AOPS math problems are the best way to advance your STEM education towards real success, even though it may help you outcompete your neighbor on a single test.
- On an industry level, sports are entertainment businesses that only needs to find enough exceptional individuals to create events people will pay to see. Participation as both a spectator or contestant are voluntary. Public education is a social investment in economic opportunity for its citizens. It needs to succeed for far more people, and the definition of its success doesn't stop at finding a few stars who fill stadium seats.
On (2), there's a difference between rooting for the participants and rooting for the system. We like seeing people overcome obstacles whether they are fair or not. I bet a lot of people would enjoy a movie about the Chinese family you describe building a better life for their kids. I like movies about people overcoming gangsters, nazis, and tornados. It doesn't mean I want to fund gangsters, nazis and tornados to make more great stories.
Finally, I unequivocally agree on flipping the bird to anyone who judges the Chinatown mom for doing the best for her kid. The issue is that a similarly brilliant kid shouldn't be held back because they don't have the same awesome mom. And hey, maybe there are other great ways that three-job mom could be investing in her family and herself.
Exactly. We didn't have nearly enough superhero films in the 1970s. Just crap like The Godfather, Apocalypse Now and Chinatown.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_water_wars : California water wars.
Relatedly on a more entertaining note: Chinatown..1974 movie by Roman Polanski https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinatown_(1974_film)
And Cadillac Desert by Marc Reisner: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Desert
> An urban light rail requires tracks and more permanent infrastructure, and will generate more investment and value
FTFY:
An urban light rail requires tracks and more permanent infrastructure, and will generate more investment and value for real estate insiders and friends of the admininistration.
See the movie "Chinatown".
>Personally I don't come on HN half as much as I used to because I just don't fancy putting myself out there when, at times, it can be a flip of the coin whether your gain or lose "points" over it.
I just accept that Hacker News culture can be vitriolic and petty and that anything I say that's even mildly controversial to someone might be downvoted, and I'll probably never know why, beyond the obvious fact that at least one person disagreed for some reason. It's much easier to participate here once you stop caring about it, though.
My account's even been rate-limited now, and rather than letting that serve its intended purpose of driving me away from the site altogether, it just helps me focus on writing better comments which sometimes get downvoted even more than they otherwise might.
Like the movie says, it's Chinatown. This aspect of Hacker News culture is never going to change.
Some good recommendations in the article. As a resident, I have enjoyed Joe Ide and especially Walter Moseley’s writing and sense of place. Not to mention all the crime TV and movies set here, from Chinatown to the Rockford Files.
Chinatown and Shoplifting Family. Both are beautiful, life changing movies.
I’m curious how you feel about reading. If you just have a generally nihilistic view that art in general doesn't better people, that kind of makes sense. But if you think there is something deficient about the video medium in particular, what is that?
Reading this I couldn't stop thinking about the Jack Nicholson movie Chinatown. It's a story of rich men fighting over water rights in the thirties. Apparently very little in California has changed over the years.
I sometimes feel like there isn't much alternative to The Guardian - on the other hand the opinion pieces are often wearisome and at times the whole thing starts to feel like a parody of itself. It is as if, in becoming "worthy" of "support" it has to crank itself up to an insane degree...just as sugary drinks become more sugary over time to retain their core drinkers.
This is especially noticeable when ludicrous lifestyle pieces sit cheek-by-jowl with slightly overwrought culture wars content. I can't find an example today so I'll make one up:
- Is enjoying the movie Chinatown an act of molestation?
- Why Colombian hemp chocolate makes for the best edible luggage
I mean I both think Polanski should be in jail and that Colombia tourism should be encouraged...but this stuff isn't news.
I once took an English class where we read screenplays that were printed in a book. One of them was of the great movie "Chinatown."
The professor --- who had never worked in film-- said: "See, the screenwriter really comes up with everything. See how he thinks of every scene, every bit of dialog, that the actors and the directors follow."
Later I read a book about the making of Chinatown and learned that the script was some huge thing that Robert Town and Roman Polanski rewrote every day while they were making the movie. The version in the text book was the correct script in the order of the final cut.
Anyone who takes a class in video game design or development should be wary of those who haven't really done it.
I didn't know about California City, but the parent post also makes me think of the classic movie Chinatown, inspired by the California Water Wars.
On the same topic, another inspiration for fiction is the book Cadillac Desert by Marc Reisner:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Desert
So eat while you drive, man :) ( I too hate driving, but live suburban and have been extremely lucky in being able to keep commute times to a minimum - like on the order of five minutes ).
Productive density is constrained by things like how accounting works, how we can't get out of our own way, by other things that are like public choice economics. At each job I've had, I've seen people walk away from millions of dollars, either in increased sales or reduced cost because somebody just didn't understand it ( or rather, did understand it all too well ).
I couldn't agree more - people who live farther out should expect less services unless they're prepared to pay what they actually cost. In cases like California, the Pubic Choice Theory stories about water are ... interesting enough that it's a central plot element from a movie from the 1970s - "Chinatown".
I've lived on well water and septic.
This being said, I don't think real estate development public debt is even on the radar as a threat to anything. They can always raise rates...
Water rights is complicated in California.
The movie Chinatown was a "based on true events" kind of deal relating to California water rights when the state was going through growing pains in the post-WW1 boom.
The best I can figure, water rights (basically a contract which establishes how much water you have a right to use from which surface water sources) has to do with seniority. In 2015, the state regulators adjusted the coefficients in an effort to prevent starvation of downstream water rights[1].
I don't know how residential water districts compete with legacy water rights ownership, but I do know that residential water districts for the vast majority of the state's population get their water from just a small handful of inland reservoirs.
[1] http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/13/us/california-announces-restrictions-on-water-use-by-farmers.html
Like I said, there were a lot of confounding factors that make it hard for me to put the blame solely on the acid. But pretty much I went in to it without taking it seriously. I ended up tripping pretty hard, by myself, from 1 PM - 9 PM, then kept tripping (not very hard, but enough that I didn't like it) throughout the rest of the night. I ended up watching the movie Chinatown on Netflix because I absolutely could not sleep -- pro tip, this is not a good movie to watch when you're afraid about not having come down and you're not sure if this is what life is going to be like forever into the future. This was the day/night before my school's next semester of classes started; needless to say it put me in a really weird place.
I have a ton of weird files that I wrote in VIM while I was tripping most heavily. I kept opening a new split/file instead of using parentheses, and I kept wanting to do this because my thoughts kept becoming more and more abstract. So I'd write a sentence, move that thought process to more abstract language, open a new buffer, repeat. At some point I remembered how to write macros and wrote a recursive macro that wrote some line of text and then a newline. I should really post this .tar.gz I have of all the files at some point, they're pretty out there.
EDIT: I guess this is the time I talk about my weird acid trip on HN. OK. Hope you all enjoyed.
My favorite movies, but for no particuliar reason:
Platoon
Wall street
Three days of the condor
Chinatown
Sunset Boulevard
The Stranger(actually all of Orson Wells movies)
Any Andy Griffith episode
Bicycle thieves 1948
Niagara
Double indemnity (actually most billy wilder films)
The Misfits (last film for Marilyn and Rhett Butler--forgot his name.)
Giant
Rebal without a cause
Leaving Las Vegas
Blow out (all three)
Saturday night fever
Yes, even Urban Cowboy
One flew over the cocos nest
Deliverance
Hanna and her sisters
East of Eden
Dr. Strange love
Back to the future
Jaws
In cold blood(with Robert Blake)
In cold blood (with Eric Roberts, and forget his name)
The asphalt jungle 1948?
All about eve
The hot rock
Little Haus Big Halsey (Redford said it was his worst movie. Yes, it's masagonistic. Yes, he plays a jerk. But the movie captures the 70's I recall as a kid. The filming is great. His side kick in the movie did a great job playing a sweet, innocent, country teen.)
A lot of foreign films I have yet to see.
California has a long, long history of water and pipelines. They even made a great movie out of the topic (Chinatown).
This guy had a lot to do with much of the pipeline engineering:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Mulholland
And this is basically what serves all of San Francisco (and the Bay area's) water needs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hetch_Hetchy
It absolutely is. I took a California Government class in college that blew my mind about how much of bipartisan political scheming is about water, to this day, because there's so much money in it.
His oft repeated quote was "when politicians agree on something and it stays out of the news, it's usually not in the public interest".
People like to make fun of Las Vegas as a city that wouldn't exist without imported water but most of So Cal wouldn't either. The bad guy in the film Chinatown is loosely based on William Mulholland, the chief engineer for the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Water_Wars
"Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."
http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0071315/quotes?qt=qt0418900
There's "renewable" (the resource regenerates over time), and "sustainable".
In much of the world:
Surface-water flows of water are already spoken for. Water rights in the Western United States are hugely complex and the source of many conflicts. The Colorado River and Owens Valley are particularly noteworthy. The movie "Chinatown" and the book * Cadillac Desert* describe some of this story in detail. In other parts of the world, water is an international concern: Israel and Jordon, Egypt and Sudan (over the Nile), the Danube in Europe, various wathersheds shared by India, China, and Pakistan. And that's a very short list.
Groundwater sources are effectively mined. The Ogallala Aquifer underlying much of the high plains states (South Dakota, Wyoming, Colorado, Kansas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, and Texas) is being depleted faster than it's being refreshed. Much of the Sahara and other middle eastern deserts contain significant aquifers (the region was a lush savannah 10,000 years ago), though the water contained has been there for thousands of years.
Ocean reserves are not fresh water.
Making seawater potable is extremely expensive (energy or dollars). Desalination costs roughly $0.50 per 1000 liters (264 gallons). This is equivalent to the cost of transporting fresh water 2000 meters vertically (6,600 ft) or 1600km (1000 miles).
Plenty of films with that rating. Just a few off the top of my head:
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/citizen_kane/
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/godfather/
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/chinatown/
(Note: I haven't seen The Social Network and I don't mean to imply that it is comparable to the iconic movies I have listed above. That said, the more reviews I see trickling in, the more it seems like it.)