Hacker Cinema
Cloud Atlas
2012 · Film · 172 min
Directed by Lilly Wachowski, Lana Wachowski, Tom Tykwer
A set of six nested stories spanning time between the 19th century and a distant post-apocalyptic future. Cloud Atlas explores how the actions and consequences of individual lives impact one another throughout the past, the present and the future. Action, mystery and romance weave through the story as one soul is shaped from a killer into a hero and a single act of kindness ripples across centuries to inspire a revolution in the distant future. Based on the award winning novel by David Mitchell. Directed by Tom Tykwer and the Wachowskis.
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51 comments on Hacker News
I wonder if there's a critical failure mode / safety feature of our species for some percentage of the population to always dislike whatever some other large percentage of the population likes.
As if it's to prevent the species from over-indexing on a particular set of behaviors.
Like how divisive films such as "Signs", "Cloud Atlas", and even "The Last Jedi" are loved by some and utterly reviled by others.
While that's kind of a silly case, maybe it's not just some random statistical fluke, but actually a function of the species at a population level to keep us from over-indexing and suboptimizing in some local minima or exploring some dangerous slope, etc.
Have you seen (or read) "Cloud Atlas", by David Mitchell? It's worth watching. And I think the phrase from the movie "the big eats the small" encapsulates this administration's behavior. It's simply exploitative, even predatory (for e.g., if you're homeless in Washington D.C. right now.)
I think that the attitude that "the big eats the small", and its consequences (that is: the trade war and the accompanying uncertainty for business, slashed science funding, tax cuts that lead to more debt for the country, and all the other potentially disasterous policy decisions) America and the world will pay a very heavy price.
So personally I like films that makes me feel something without that feeling being explicitly forced upon me. This is an incredible thing to achieve that only a select few directors can do. Not “baiting” the viewers into emotions but also not being cold at the same time. Just by showing and how do they show it. Like the case of “a picture is worth a thousand words”. It’s a razor thin line but that makes these films I enjoy special and sincere.
(I'll only mentions stuff from the 21st century because otherwise I'd sit here for days)
I love japanese cinema so I'm very biased towards films from there.
- The Taste of Tea (2004) from Katsuhito Ishii
- Nobody Knows (2004) from Hirokazu Kore-eda
- Tony Takitani (2004) from Jun Ichikawa
- Memories of Matsuko (2006) from Tetsuya Nakashima
- Departures (2008) from Yojiro Takita
- Still Walking (2008) from Hirokazu Kore-eda
- Tokyo Sonata (2008) from Kiyoshi Kurosawa
- One Million Yen Girl (2008) from Yuki Tanada
- Haru’s Journey (2010) from Masahiro Kobayashi
- Story of Yonosuke (2013) from Shuichi Okita
- Shoplifters (2018) from Hirokazu Kore-eda
- Drive My Car (2021) from Ryūsuke Hamaguchi
Two korean film I've really liked
- The Handmaiden (2016) from Park Chan-wook
- Pieta (2012) from Kim Ki-duk
A chinese film I've seen recently and it was pretty good
- Black Coal, Thin Ice (2014) from Diao Yi-nan
Iranian films are incredibly good and crazy what they could make despite the situation there
- A Separation (2011) from Asghar Farhadi
- Taxi (2015) from Jafar Panahi
- The Salesman (2016) from Asghar Farhadi
- There Is No Evil (2020) from Mohammad Rasoulof
- My Favourite Cake (2024) from Maryam Moghaddam and Behtash Sanaeeha
Some european films I've enjoyed
- Enter the Void (2009) from Gaspar Noé
- Leviathan (2014) from Andrey Zvyagintsev
- Alcarràs (2022) from Carla Simón
- Fallen Leaves (2023) from Aki Kaurismäki
And last but not least some actual Hollywood films that I think are pretty good
- The Tree of Life (2011) from Terrence Malick
- Cloud Atlas (2012) from Lilly Wachowski and Lana Wachowski
- First Reformed (2017) from Paul Schrader
- Nickel Boys (2024) from RaMell Ross
I would claim that Matrix 2&3, Speed Racer and Cloud Atlas are incredible movies. What are your opinion on those movies?
I was young when dune was released and a big fan of herbert books. there was also star wars that ive seen at the same time. Dune is still today to me one of the great SF movies and I count a very few I really love (cloud atlas is another more recent one, speed racer too).
All his weirder movies were great experiences but my favorite ever Lynch movie is the Straight Story. such a perfect beautiful movie. I loved badalamenti music as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCzAetSFRC8&ab_channel=amasterofnothing1
I always thought writing and directing a movie of pure kindness and making it interesting as a piece of great art was the real mark of genius.
And then you have trailers like Cloud Atlas which are 5 minutes long and don't spoil a single thing about the film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWnAqFyaQ5s
I truly loved Cloud Atlas. It's also a rare example where the book and movie adaptation both lift each other up (though I saw the movie first, and can't know if I would have felt that way in the other direction). I felt like the movie is better at emphasizing the thematic connection between each story, while the book is better at showing the impact of each story on the next, and showing that each story exists for the characters in the next. I loved the movie even more after reading the book.
This reminds me of the description of Disneys(future movies) in Cloud Atlas. The movie had a good visualization, this feels like that.
Oh wow that's because there is not a Moon breakup scene in Cloud Atlas!
It's in the movie adaption of The Time Machine. In the book though he just arrives in the future and the moon is already gone (Chapter XIV The Further Vision https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/35/pg35-images.html).
I think I read cloud atlas and the time machine, and watched the time machine movie around the same time, and got everything mixed up.
That was a fun afternoon reading through bits of books until I could figure out what I was remembering.
Weirdly, Cloud Atlas also stars Halle Berry. I really like the movie of Cloud Atlas, myself. I've read the book at least three times, but I don't remember anything about the Moon?
Cloud Atlas (released 6 years after Moonfall was released as a book) also has a story with the earth being destroyed by mans attempt to harness the moon for energy (and also has a bad film adoption).
Moonfall is the first book I know of that used the concept, but it seems like humans have been fascinated with man or god(s) manipulating the moon for a very very long time, the oldest case I can think of is from the Quran (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_of_the_Moon), so we've been fixated on the idea for a long time.
Maybe there are more cases and I will read about them in the comments here.
My one unpopular movie opinion is that cloud atlas is waaay underrated
I think the complicated story/narrative threw a lot of people off from appreciating it
Really good movie to re-watch multiple times, the scope of that movie is crazy
Cloud Atlas.
I liked the book. I loved the movie.
I personally believe that infinity is a wonderful concept and so honestly anything is possible. Even the impossible.
I watch a lot of films, mostly older ones these days, I don't want to estimate how many.
This film has haunted me with its beauty. Not as airy as Mallick's work, a little softer than Aronofsky (The fountain, black Swan are masterpieces).
I think Mr. Nobody attempts a weaker version of this film, cloud atlas also.
Gattaca, inception, 2001, kpax maybe.
Cloud Atlas
It's a movie I seem to go back to, to understand more about it and how the different story lines are connected. The philosophy aspect of this film I find appealing and it made think about reality differently although I wouldn't call myself a believer of such things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWnAqFyaQ5s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_Atlas_(film)
That's similar to a plot point in the movie Cloud Atlas, where some in the oil industry try to sabotage a nuclear plant.
David Mitchell's book Cloud Atlas might fit I think. There was a film made of it in 2012. The children's book Charlie Cook's Favourite Book has the same premise.
You might also find things in Jorge Luis Borges' short stories (although I can't think of any specifically off the top of my head).
The film Inception has a recursive theme to it.
And there is a popular sci-fi book called Recursion, but I've not read it so not sure how much it fits the actual idea of Recursion!
I think some books just don't adapt to movies well. Cloud Atlas is one of my favorite books and I was shocked to learn it was being made into a movie, it just didn't seem like the right format. Despite a lot of talent and money going into it, the film didn't turn out that great and was probably an impossible task.
There's quite a few directors who credit Murakami as an influence on their works.
Rian Johnson credits HBW+EOW as an influence on Looper.
Wong Kar-wai says he took inspiration from Murakami in Chunking Express.
David Mitchell is clearly influenced by his works (worth reading if you're a Murakami fan). His novel Cloud Atlas got a film adaptation with Tom Hanks and some other big names.
In anime, Satoshi Kon and Makoto Shinkai have said Murakami was a big influence on them. There's also Haibane Renmei which was influenced by HBW+EOW (IMO not worth watching). Probably plenty more anime with similar styles because it's a more suitable medium for the kind of surrealism in Murakami's novels. You might like Psycho-Pass, GITS, Lain which share some of the same elements of Murakami's works.
Being 'cancelled' in academia and entertainment is a very real thing that happens to artists, but more notably, as I mentioned, suppresses tons of content across the board that won't even get pitched otherwise.
While some people do overstate it, it's definitely real.
Those who diminish it are the fascists of our generation.
Sean Penn (far left activist) and Conan O'Brien (staunch centre left advocate, public supporter of Hillary Clinton etc.) publicly decried the problem as 'Stalinist' - strong words. In their experience, in private conversation in Hollywood people are freaked out about the oppression, while a few virtue signal here and there publicly while towing the party line, everyone is thinks it's nuts.
Stephen Pinker (staunch centre-left, respected academic) has spoken out about this, and faced a 'cancellation' of his own for merely suggesting publicly that the issue with policing in America is more a general problem as opposed to specifically a racial problem. The 'mob' came for him and tried to have his participation on various boards 'cancelled'.
A long list of thinkers, including the likes of Chomsky himself, had to come out and publicly admonish the 'cancellers' (mostly on the far left) for the systematic problem.
It's without modern precedent.
There's a 'civil war' between generations at the NYT (Editorial) about what constitutes 'fair'.
The 'outrage mob' has a measurable effect on academia and especially creative culture.
Producers just don't want to risk a project being annulled, and so they go out of their way to 'sanitize' efforts left and right.
The Wachowski sisters (then brothers) were 'condemned' for 'Cloud Atlas' where they dared to have people of different classes, genders and races, play various characters - frankly in attempt to display the common humanity within all of us (not some arbitrary bit of ugly humour) - though the outrage wasn't enough to hurt them, it's become a 'no go zone' for content in 2022.
Actors playing characters of different source origin i.e. someone 'non Japanese' playing a character from Anime, actors playing historical figures, actors playing arbitrary fictional characters of questionable origin etc. etc. - it's all a minefield, scaring producers away from anything.
30 Rock, made by your typically socially progressive groups, had several episodes pulled.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Go ahead and re-watch 'Superbad' - it could not be made today, it wouldn't even get pitched. Every scene is 'off message' - arbitrary bits about crude porn, jokes involving trans people, 'period' gags. It was always a bit 'outrageous' but that kind of humour will risk too much ire and so it's out. Even the actors just wouldn't want to risk being on the wrong side - look at Seth Rogen's most recent work, it's like a 180 degree shift.
Institutional entities that have been around for some time, notably 'make money' and notably have their own production ability - South Park and Family Guy, basically get a free pass.
But most people in entertainment and academia do not have power like 'Dave Chapelle' or institutional protection like 'South Park' or respect of 'Stephen Pinker' - so they 'stay on message' and 'away from controversy' or else the script does not get approved. And FYI even the people turning it away aren't ideological about it 'it's just business' and an accommodation of the outrage mob, fickle advertisers etc..
The 'outraged' a fairly small group, with a sizeable group of allies particularly among Gen Z, which can be noted in the continuous public furor over ostensibly 'terrible person', JK Rowling. The way they go on about here is medieval.
While I don't think our campuses are overtly hostile, the issue does linger.
No, I don't think so. I think they get it largely right.
How many reviews of movies have you seen from a senior, experienced reviewer got a film really totally wrong?
I don't mean "hated a movie that genre fans will like", or "dunked on a trashy movie", because in almost all cases those reviews acknowledge their biases and even the people who like that sort of thing will get the picture.
I mean: really wrong.
In recent years I can think of only one major movie that was seriously misunderstood by a major critic: Cloud Atlas was totally misperceived by Mark Kermode. And even he changed his opinion on a second viewing.
In general I wish other things were reviewed as fairly as films are; too many reviews of things/services are poisoned by motivated reasoning.
Cloud Atlas is one of my favorite movies of all time. IMHO Resurrections isn't even in the same league as Cloud Atlas.
You nailed it. Cloud Atlas is one of my favorite movies of all time and, yet, it is like cilantro – some people love it, some people hate it. The opinions about the movie are so polar that I feel it's genetic. I also enjoyed Resurrections and think it's less cynical that others assert it is.
Do you have links to those essays? I would love to
> sinks a movie franchise out of spite?
it's not spite. She didn't "sink" it because she was spiteful, she wanted to say something about the films and her work and chose to deconstruct the act of making a sequel to a trilogy after 20 years. It's their art, they can do what they want with it.
Their work since Matrix has always been avant-guard (Cloud Atlas is barely a film in any normal sense, a Speed Racer film by anyone else isn't _that_) they were never coming back to make another stock science-fiction action film.
The real question is, how did Warner green-light the script and release knowing that it was going say all those things.
V for Vendetta is classic.
Cloud Atlas is one of my favorite films of all time. It's incredibly divisive, but if you appreciate its deep symbolism and rich interwoven storytelling, it's beautiful. The wide dynamic range of genres it attempts to fit - romance, comedy, science fiction, murder mystery, spy thriller - is not only ambitious, but absolutely works to establish the symphony of it all.
Resurrections surpasses the mediocre second and third Matrix films and manages to troll both the studio and the audience in a deliberately tongue in cheek, yet equally trippy way. It's clever for working with the tools they had.
Yeah, that's my impression too. It's unbelievable that there was right amount of everything in The Matrix.
Cloud Atlas, Sense8, and other movies Lana made after The Matrix just feel a bit cringy and off most of the time.
I wonder who produced that paper(i.e who sponsored it). How easy and convenient to link pirating to terrorism, don't you think? What's next? pirating and WMD?
>> A group willing to do this illegally is often willing to do other high-profit risky and illegal activity.
A law abiding citizen is just a docile citizen if he abides by wrong/unjust laws. If you were a jew in Nazi Germany a law abiding citizen would have given you in to the Gestapo while a "pirate" would have taken the risk to give you shelder.
A group willing to torrent Game of Thrones is not often willing to do terrorism, you poor little ....! They just want to watch a fucking movie and decide to torrent it because:
a) they don't have the money to buy it
b) they can't buy it because some stupid executives believe some people should watch it 20 years after it's released in x country.
c) they can't watch it on the device they want/when they want because of the excellent DRM laws that you praise and I assume you abide of(i.g their HDMI cable is not version 2.0a it's just 1.4b
d) they are humans
Before hunting "Game of Thrones" pirates can we please do something about all the big guys such GS [0] that steal billions from poor people, some of them unable to pay for that Game of Thrones movie they pirate? I mean something more than a handshake for returning a part of the money when they get caught.
If you want to stop crime you should invest in education and provide opportunities for a decent life.
Either way, jailing your neightbour for pirating movies will not make him a better neightbour. Most likely will turn him/her into a real criminal vengeful on the system/society.
Btw, good job with Aaron[1]! You've done the "right thing", right? So much justice that makes me sick to my stomach. All this to make the few wealthy and privileged wealthier and the lives of the poors more miserable!
When I read your comment your attitude remembered me of a quote from Cloud Atlas[2]: "There is a natural order to this world, and those who try to upend it do not fare well. "
[0] https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53529075
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz
[2] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lxumQYpBzr0
I’ll check him out, thanks in kind! The name threw me at first, because the David Mitchell I’m familiar with is a British comedian who I’m already fond of.
And I’ve just learned that he wrote Cloud Atlas, a film that I started watching in the wrong headspace so didn’t get far, but I remember being intrigued by the synopsis I read beforehand. Ghostwritten is where to start, yes? Or are there short stories that I should seek out first?
Your timing is perfect: I’m waiting for 3 (!) unfinished series to release their next volumes, so a writer who will keep me busy for a month or two is most welcome!
—
For (in)completeness’ sake, because I can’t help sharing my excitement about these, even though they are strictly off topic at this point and this post will be too damn long, the unfinished series I’m waiting for are:
NK Jemisin (an author in OP’s list) - Great Cities series (One book complete). What if cities can become (once they grow complex enough) living beings? What if there are extra-dimensional forces arrayed against them, and the cities raise humans as avatars to help themselves? Only one book is finished, and it’s a good one. Self-aware Lovecraft for the modern world, focused on NYC. Her complete Broken Earth trilogy is also good.
Robert Jackson Bennett - The Founders Trilogy (two books complete). In this world, “scribing” is a way to make physical objects behave as if their physical constants were altered, much like variables in programming. A thief who can “see” these scribings gets in touch with a “talking” key who has a much greater understanding of them. But what kind of graybeard made the key ages ago? What’s their long game? Why can the thief even see this stuff? Being a programmer probably adds a lot to this one, but it’s not a requirement. Reminds me some of Stephenson’s wit with a lot less of his expository narrative (no slight there—he’s easily in my top 5, and some narrative asides are some of his best bits.)
Peter Newman - The Deathless (Two books complete). This one really surprised me. Royals with flying armor live in floating castles and cultivate “heirs” who will host their consciousnesses when they die, while commoners scrabble near The Wild that grows just outside the influence of the royals’ magical roads. I‘m sorry to say that I read a preview out of incredulity, with the intent of hating on the premise. Turns out it intrigued me enough to buy the first book, and then I was hooked because the world and its inhabitants are super interesting. “Don’t judge a book by its synopsis,” etc.
Bonus, ‘cause why not: James A. Corey - The Expanse. Read your own summary for this one =)
Cloud Atlas was a divisive film.
While the film may be guilty of taking itself too seriously, that's a small flaw in contrast to its bold vision. It's a very ambitious work, and I count it among my favorite films of all time.
Cloud Atlas > Jupiter Ascending
and I wouldnt say that Cloud Atlas qualifies as "... not good film"
I am dubious. Jupiter Ascensing and Cloud Atlas were...not good films.
It might be interesting. And maybe a common theme would emerge why those four fictional books got never published. It might be a bit like "Cloud Atlas" where the different stories are connected in a way that becomes apparent only in the end.
Consider that none of the sub-stories of Cloud Atlas were good enough on their own to be published (and turned into a movie).
Well both your reply and the above 'replier' have simply attacked my comment ad-hominem, and have not provided any basis for your arguments.
I don't think it adds anything to the argument to indicate "People who say such and such just want to do this or that"
That 'a lot of films could not get made' is not a controversial idea - have a listen to Hollywood podcasts. Granted, a lot of the 'can't get made' memes are directed at issues such as 'market size' and geopolitics (i.e. China market), there's no shortage of films that have suffered consequences due to nearly arbitrary issues over race, gender etc. - and these were the films that were approved.
"Scarlett Johansson is again at the center of a casting controversy, this time for accepting a role to play a transgender man. " [1]
"Taika Waititi Teases ‘Akira’ Film Adaptation, Says No One Has to Worry About Whitewashing" [2]
"Cloud Atlas under fire for casting white actors in 'yellowface' makeup" [3]
Literally a film made by two hyper-progressive transgender women, 'under fire' for casting people of different ethnicities and genders, in different roles entirely to make a point about such things, faces controversy.
These various movements represent serious restrictions to artistic creativity and freedom of expression in the arts, and it's had a chilling effect on the industry.
The studios have 'taken note' - and now there are an entire series of stories and characters removed from pop culture reference, due to the antagonizing of a fairly small number of individuals.
Twitter has become a tool of mass suppression, whereby a few angry people can often dictate 'what cannot be done'.
The effect is pronounced and significant, affecting casting decisions in most films made in Hollywood.
Consider that in 2019 there was no host for the Oscars - largely because nobody wants to step up to the plate and undergo the kind of scrutiny usually reserved for presidential candidates. Any public statement ever made, in any context, that runs afoul of one group or another, can have one permanently removed - I'm not defending terrible people like Bryan Singer (X-Men), rather, guys like James Gunn (Guardians of the Galaxy), who made some really tasteless jokes on Twitter and lost his job (though thankfully regained).
Finally, on a side note, I'll refer to John Cleese himself during a Marc Maron interview (you can search iTunes for it, highly recommended): "You can't make a joke about the French Revolution anymore". I understand this isn't quite a concern over sensitivities, but Cleese himself pokes in this direction in his interviews.
[1] https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2018/07/04/scarlett-johansson-faces-backlash-again-role-transgender-man/757746002/
[2] https://www.indiewire.com/2017/10/taika-waititi-akira-film-details-whitewashing-1201886320/
[3] https://www.theguardian.com/film/2012/oct/26/cloud-atlas-under-fire-yellowface
Agreed. Really great book. That and Cloud Atlas are my favourite non-linear books (pls forget the movie) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_Atlas_(novel)
To answer your first question: you simply sacrifice your free time to do it. No magic bullets sadly. Or, if your day job is very boring, get a fixed slice of your workday and utilize it for your future prospects / education. So many people do it and yet it's a largely denied phenomena. One of the so-called "public secrets". :)
A deliberate attempt to move into a higher position is just an intention and nothing else. The real hard part is changing the way you think and view yourself. You can start with reminiscing all the times in your career when you had a much bigger advice to offer outside of the usual coding monkey trope: "this feature will be done in 2 days". In this regard I believe the author hits the nail on the head: it's all about how people view you. If they view you as a coding monkey then they will not listen.
Start thinking about the advice you have given and which was ignored.
The process of self-transformation can take anywhere from several weeks to decades (and many people never achieve it). It seriously depends on the person. I am currently in that hard transition and I have to tell you -- it's exhausting and it will challenge a ton of preconceptions you didn't even know you had just a week ago. Be prepared to put anything and everything in your life philosophy in question. It's more than most human egos can endure.
I am still a programmer, damn good one at that. But I regularly get rejected based on "cultural fits" or half-arsed excuses where they have no idea how to twist the fact that they don't want somebody with my rates or my resistance to BS. And I started having other people market me as not-only-a-programmer. I am in no-man's-land right now but I can feel the attitude of several people changing -- and see a few new ones coming with a drastically different one compared to what I am used to when people hear I am a programmer.
TL;DR: It's extremely hard and the main limitation and hurdle is you. Sucks to admit but it's better for one fo be a realist. Remember the amazing "Cloud Atlas" movie:
"All rules are conventions and are meant to be transcended. One can only transcend a convention if they first imagine of doing so."
---
And yes, luck plays a huge part to it. But in one of the towns in my country people love saying "luck doesn't come to you, you go to it" -- which illustrates that if you keep trying eventually you will bump into the right people and conditions.
Lots of good stuff in this thread. Two books I haven't seen are Bone Clocks and Cloud Atlas. The only thing is, you can't Google them, for risk of spoilers.
Also, the movie based on Cloud Atlas is not great.
Cloud Atlas stands firmly on its own, I should re-read it at some point. The movie (also a one of a kind, it staying reasonably close to the source material and being one of the most expensive independent movies ever) keeps popping up on Netflix too.
It's also a rare example of a book whose movie adaptation is really worth watching. I watched the movie first, and I think both the book and movie are better thanks to the other. The book makes it clear how each story exists in the next, and the movie gives a better sense of how the themes of the books tie together, despite their differences.
To anyone who reads Cloud Atlas, I strongly recommend you also watch the movie, and vice versa.
>It’s not entirely clear yet if the studio wants a remake with Neo, Agent Smith, and the rest of the core characters, a new film set in the established world, or something between the two.
Uh, what is this author railing against? A possibility that exists only in his head? Is there any evidence this is even in the cards?
I can't imagine the Wachowski's doing a cheap Spiderman-like cash out of just re-doing origin stories over and over again. People may not have liked Reloaded and Revolutions, but they were expansive and very, very different than the original, less ambitious, movie. Personally, I'd just like to see this wanna-be franchise die. So much was covered in the originals and the various conflicts in the movies end up nicely resolved. I suspect regardless of the direction chosen, there's a real path to a Lucas-like Phanton Menace disaster here.
I also prefer the Wachoswski's to stay weird and not to retread old glories. I can't imagine anyone else with the will, connections, money, talent, and politics to make a great Cloud Atlas movie, but they somehow pulled it off.
That said, I'd love to see the Matrix IP put towards video games. There's still a lot of fun to have in that world. Why isn't anyone making a well funded Matrix Vive game? More Matrix movies is a bit like making more Viewmaster film circles. The tech, culture, and innovation have moved on past movies when it comes to cyberpunky storytelling. I want a 3D vista that surrounds me, not crunching popcorn in a uncomfortable seat and staring at a wall while the people around me send text messages and make noise.
From the amazing "Cloud Atlas" (2012) movie:
"But what is an ocean, if not a multitude of drops?"
I am feeling a lot of despair and paranoia about this case but there are still reasons to be hopeful and optimistic.
> This is cultural dissipation [...] the primary method by which cultures evolve: a person's thoughts and preferences are expressed to others, verbally or via creative acts, which can appear as suggested priorities, and often are promoted into mainstream culture.
This.
Tangentially, one of the things I really liked about the film "The Cloud Atlas" is the subtext of cultural dissipation through low-probability events. The implied moral being: "Try to always be the best person you can be, because you don't know which moments of yours are going to end up having lasting significance.
Ah, glad they have their society sorted out, but its definitely a pattern for Hollywood at this point: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/23/opinion/why-wont-hollywood-cast-asian-actors.html?_r=0
GitS follows a handful of other movies recently which could have had a more asian cast but did not. Very frustrating to see the same decision made in movies like The Last Airbender, Aloha, Cloud Atlas, Dr Strange, etc.
> worry about racial crap anymore.
Great, maybe when a brown actor can as easily get roles for the main character instead of the taxi driver, we'll be past that. Till then, the game's stacked.
> If they don't, then why should US movie studios?
Because not all americans are white, and if there ever was a chance to see someone who looked like me in a movie being cool, I would hope it's the anime adaptation. GitS is merely the latest in a long line of movies to re-cast asian roles for caucasian actors. Some more: Avatar the last airbender, Aloha, Cloud Atlas was especially cringeworthy since caucasian actors had prosthetic eyelids... imagine if robert downey jr's character's blackface was played non-ironically.
I wouldn't mind if it just happens sometimes, but it happens almost every time... They could easily find american actors who speak perfect english, that's supposed to be one of the advantages of being a country of immigrants no?
I understand the financial motivations of a casting decision, but its somewhat of a catch 22. It's difficult to find minority actors who have lots of experience. It's difficult to get a lot of experience as a minority actor since you end up getting typecasted for a few roles.
Seems like you could get new insights and ideas by getting lost in the graphs (if only I had better recollection of this film!) The interactive graph-timeline is a rather uncommon visualization technique, but I can see it being very useful. It only needs smooth graph transitions while using the timeline scrubber, and it could make a very useful tool with different applications.
And as films go, I think a similar analysis performed on Cloud Atlas would be extremely interesting.
RT's Tomatometer or Metacritic's Metascore are not measures of film worth as a kind of "atomic weight." Tomatometer, in particular, is a statement about how many reviewers gave a positive review, without regard to each reviewer's depth of feeling.
Imagine three movies:
First: 90% of reviewers gave 5/5, 10% of reviewers gave 1/5. Second: 90% of reviewers gave 3/5, 10% of reviewers gave 2/5. Third: 80% of reviewers gave 5/5, 20% of reviewers gave 1/5.
First movie: Almost all reviewers raved about the movie - it's probably good. Second movie: Not a single reviewer loved or hated it; it's probably pretty bland. Third movie: vast majority of reviewers loved it, and the rest hated it. It's not as sure a bet as the first, but all of the reviewers reacted strongly to it.
Would you rather see the second or third movie? I'd rather see the third. For example, is The Avengers (92%)[1] really a better executed, more worthwhile film than Cloud Atlas (66%)[2]?
Metacritic handles this a little better, because the reviewer score is weighted, not just a +1 or -1. However, it still has the problem of 90%/10% and 60%/40% both averaging to 50%.
No number-crunching, but I have a suspicion that studios are getting better and better about shotgunning out enough chum to different types of reviewers to effectively game those numbers, which is how you arrive at RT scores like those you present.
[1] http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/marvels_the_avengers/
[2] http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/cloud_atlas_2012/
Roger Ebert wrote about Cloud Atlas: "Surely this is one of the most ambitious films ever made. ... Anywhere you go where movie people gather, it will be discussed."
Yet support takes many forms, not only monetary, and not only from the audience (propaganda comes to mind...).
But I'm willing to moderate my statement to "no AAA blockbusters will be made" or "no really high budget movies will be made", or something like that. It will have an impact on the budget of movies. Some may argue that is a good thing, but I enjoy my Matrix, LoTR, Hobbit, Cloud Atlas, Marvels, etc. and don't really want that to go away.
Django Unchained - Cloud Atlas - Looper - Argo - Easily the best movies I saw this year, they were all really, really awesome.
Moonrise Kingdom was the best. The Hobbit was great.
Looper was good, but the ending wasn't logically consistent I think.
Since no one has mentioned it, I would recommend Dredd. It was a good movie going experience. Don't know it would make good viewing outside a cinema, though.
Cloud Atlas was interesting, but not as insightful as it was made out to be.
The two you need to watch:
- Get the Gringo
- Grabbers
The rest:
- Cloud Atlas was...interesting.
- Pitch Perfect was the absolute worst, but hilarious. In a similar vein: For a Good Time, Call.
- Argo and Beast of the Southern Wild are overhyped in my opinion.
- Life of Pi was great (make sure to read the book at some point).
- End of Watch was better than advertised.
- Dark Knight Rises was a solid conclusion to the series.
- Ted was funny, but doesn't work so well on repeat views.
- Other movies you should watch: The new Total Recall. Safety Not Guaranteed. Lawless. The Amazing Spiderman (awesome series reboot)
> If it were Western looks influencing double eyelids, are guys also going blonde/brunette or doing anything else?
Absolutely, dyed hair is almost universally present amongst celebrities. Usually brown or red, but sometimes blonde.
You'll also see other surgically obtained Western facial features, such as a more elongated face and larger noses, in Korean celebrities. I'm not a facial structure expert so I can't scientifically enunciate it, but they don't look anything like your average Korean. For example, I wouldn't be surprised if they're modifying their foreheads too, to look like Tom Cruise in that picture you linked.
> In fact I honestly think (with enough grooming and styling) you can get more fit Asian guys looking like those two examples you gave than you could get white guys to look like them.
Oh, of course. No matter what you do, you'll never truly bridge the gap between races.
A good recent example of this is Cloud Atlas, which has drawn a lot of controversy for one of its story arcs, which is set in a futuristic "Neo-Seoul". Whereas the female actresses are Asian (Bae Doona of Korea and Zhou Xun of China), they used "yellow-face" to make male white actors look Asian, instead of using Asian actors.[0] Predictably, it's not at all a convincing makeover and has drawn harsh criticism from Asian American advocacy groups for the continued discrimination against/marginalization of Asian men by Hollywood.
> So just because of that, it's probably benefitting Asian guys more that they're being flaunted as sexy.
Right, and that's definitely the case. If you look at the expat blogosphere for Korea, what was dominated by men a few years ago is now dominated by women who write about their fairytale romances in Korea (no idea how true a lot of it is, but there you go)[1]. Either way, that's still a very small percentage of a very small percentage (remember that women like to blog about dating a lot more than men). And I'm just saying that obtaining Western features played a big role in the hallyu spreading to the West.
> As for Japan, they didn't have a well-developed live-action film industry
This is not exactly true. A lot of foreigners think that Japanese adults all read manga and watch anime, and while it is common to see salarymen reading manga on the train, its certainly not a widespread pastime the way that TV is in the West.
Japan does have a live-action film industry, but it's pretty shitty. The production values aren't nearly as high as in Korea (the sets look grungy, the background music isn't as good), the actors/actresses don't use as much plastic surgery/makeup, and they're not going for international appeal. Not to mention the acting/writing is even worse than in K-dramas, if you can believe that.
0: http://nerdreactor.com/2012/10/26/cloud-atlas-gets-heat-for-yellow-face-makeup-and-lack-of-asian-actors/
1: http://imnopicasso.blogspot.com/2010/10/myth-part-iv-awakening-women-after.html
A little more context for the quote:
We all knew one of the commonsense edicts of Hollywood is “never invest in your own movie." But I did it anyway.
-- Garry Marshall, My Happy Days in Hollywood [1]
A few of the many well-known movies that are self-financed: Blair Witch Project, Clerks, most Robert Rodriguez movies[2], the upcoming Cloud Atlas by the Wachowskis. Self-financing might still lead to low odds of success (probably difficult to properly study this), but it seems to me there are enough success stories to question the "never" advice.
[1] http://books.google.com/books?id=X3eXiLG9WnIC&pg=PA196&lpg=PA196#v=onepage&q&f=false
[2] http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/robert-rodriguez-talks-spy-kids-4-the-joys-of-self-financing-and-his-5-000-upcoming-projects#