Dark Star
1974 · Film · 83 min
Directed by John Carpenter
A group of scientists are sent on a mission to destroy unstable planets. Twenty years into their mission, they have to battle their alien mascot as well as a "sensitive" and intelligent bombing device that starts to question the meaning of its existence.
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Reminds me of the movie "Dark Star" by John Carpenter / Dan O'Bannon. The plot revolves around a talking smart bomb which is programmed to detonate and then gets stuck before being deployed. The crew spends the whole movie trying to reason with the bomb, hoping to talk it out of blowing up at the designated time. The movie is very very bad but if you like B movies it is also very very good.
It’s fairly overt: „The film was just starting. It was science fiction, of all things; called Dark Star.“ (pg. 111 in the mass market paperback)
Watching it from time to time over the years I've noticed all the little 2001 A Space Odyssey references. The Dark Star universe is some sort of "low budget" version of the 2001 universe. By low budget I mean janky. Many things in Dark Star are janky versions of what you see 2001.
For example, the Dark Star central computer is really just a janky version of HAL. In 2001 HAL wishes happy birthday to a sunbathing Frank Pool. In Dark Star, you have Pinback on a lawnchair using a jerry-rigged sunbathing lamp, later complaining that no one remembered it was his birthday. Both have scenes that feature explosive bolts. Also both have scenes with the astronauts getting sandwiches (chicken or ham?). Both have a mission control guy, with the one in Dark Star being completely useless. There are probably more references but these come to mind.
Love that movie.
A prime example how German dubbing tried to make films more comedic. Like the Bud Spencer/Terence Hill films that were a huge success in Germany because of the slapstick dialogue not present in the Italian original.
In Dark Star they renamed Alien to Hüpfgemüse, which roughly translates to hopping vegetable. It‘s a hoot!
The last line in this context "Let there be light" always reminds me of the film Dark Star. Where they are arguing with the AI on a planet destroying bomb only for the bomb to argue from a Solipsistic point of view.
~all is ambitious.
Dark Star is one film that directly addresses the long voyage insanity of deep space;
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Star_(film)
Similarly with sailing films, particularly documentaries, there are films that focus more on the journey than the endpoints. eg: (IIRC) the Kon-Tiki (1950) doco had a lot of mid ocean time.
This is giving me strong Dark Star vibes with the intelligent bomb forcing a philosophical discussion about existence and perception at the end.
(Spoilers for the ending of the movie: https://youtu.be/h73PsFKtIck?si=tTm9TidmEMBHsXq1 )
Time to watch again this montage from the 1974 movie "Dark Star" by John Carpenter, parody of 2001 a space Odyssey.
Topic: "talking to the bomb"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h73PsFKtIck (warning this is considered to spoil the movie).
The earlier Red Dwarf episodes were filmed in the BBC cafeteria and other similar locations. The difference is that Red Dwarf was supposed to look grimy. They were on a mining ship with few luxuries. Red Dwarf was more in the territory of Dark Star, and played into that. (Early Red Dwarf tended to use physical models and costumes for a lot of effects. CGI has never been especially great on RD.)
I did watch Babylon 5 when it first came out in the UK. Deep Space 9 definitely had better looking effects, but I preferred B5 to DS9 on the basis of other factors.
> But Alien being barely more than a higher budget Dark Star remake
granted, but this wasn't a Point Break remake either. Dark Star is pretty much a student film turned into a blockbuster. Even El Mariachi->Desperado wasn't as different as Dark Star->Alien was.
I agree that the aesthetic made for an excellent film but I always thought that if they had sufficient power for FTL travel (e.g. massive fusion reactors or something) they could have powered a few extra light bulbs.
Although the ship in Dark Star wins the space-grunge contest hands-down.
Yeah, weird how that seems to never come up. I sometimes have trouble keeping the movies apart in memory (Silent and Dark).
But Alien being barely more than a higher budget Dark Star remake that somehow got stuck in the elevator scene (and lost all of the original's lightheartedness in the process), that absolutely is my favorite piece of scifi movie trivia.
AI explosives with personalities feature in https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Star_(film)
I have to wonder whether it was named after John Carpenter's “Dark Star”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Star_(film)
> It’s not less work to make those films
It's more! That's part of what makes it impressive.
You can come at it from the perspective of "It's merely an accounting trick and slave labor" but I think that's missing it for what it is. Most art is created without an expected paycheck. Movies especially are collaborative and everyone involved in small indie projects with no budgets knew there were working for little to no pay. You think the actors, camera man, lighting and set guys, were all thinking they were going to make a bunch in the box office from Dark Star / Mariachi? Likely not. They probably were thinking they'd try their shot at exposure. Actors might get recognized and get a career out of it, or not. Film crew at least had something on their resume. It's not like the directors (Cameron, Rodriguez) were making any promises they couldn't keep.
> Carpenter and O'Bannon set out to make the "ultimate riff on Stanley Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey," says Griffiths. While Kubrick's 1968 film, explains Muir, was one "in which viewers sought meaning in the stars about the nature of humanity, there is no meaning to life in Dark Star". Rather, says Muir, it parodies 2001 "with its own sense of man's irrelevance in the scheme of things".
It's said that 'every generation thinks they discovered sex', as if prior generations wouldn't imagine the things the new generation does in the bedroom. Every generation also thinks they discovered existential despair, and seem to have to same attitude about that: What a cool, knowing take-down of those old people and their simple-minded optimism. I see people doing the same these days (though right now existential despair is really having a moment).
Relevant to your comment (and not the film) is John Oswald's super-collage of many, many live recordings of Dark Star: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grayfolded
Disrupt has a nice track with samples from Dark Star called Bomb 20.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fP2r59XMMvM
The whole album Foundation Bit is full of samples from movies like Blade Runner, Tron, THX 1138 (George Lucas) etc.
A real gem if you like electronic/reggae.
I think I remember reading in an interview with O'Bannon, likely linked from hn when he died, that he came up with the idea for Alien after experiencing a cinema audience in terrified silence through the elevator scene, instead of the intended laughs. Something along the lines of "if I can't make them laugh but make them fear without even trying, what if I do try?" If there's and truth to this story, Alien is quite literally a remake of a Dark Star side story, just pivoted a bit.
Never heard about that Jodorowsky angle before, thanks. Must be the most influencial movie that never happened.
The band Pinback, named after Sergeant Pinback, also samples the film in a bunch of songs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDxylYWcHuA&list=OLAK5uy_kmJoNVasF223_aUcocbBbdX01xOlQVeww&index=1).
There's also the beloved (unrelated to the movie) Grateful Dead song Dark Star.
It's worth watching "Jodorowsky's Dune" if you haven't to see the direct-line connection - Jodorowsky happened to see "Dark Star" playing at a film festival while out in California and wanted whoever did the special effects to come work on his doomed "Dune" adaptation. He hired O'Bannon, who came out and met future Alien collaborators HR Giger and Moebius. It's fair to say Alien would not have happened, (or would not be the Alien we know now), if not for Dark Star.
Quentin Tarantino and Roger Avery review Dark Star on their first podcast episode. [0]
It’s worth listening to even if you don’t really follow their work. It’s what finally motivated me to watch this movie after seeing it in the video store my whole childhood and then forgetting about it for decades.
[0] https://videoarchivespodcast.com/episodes/dark-star-cocaine-cowboys
This movie blew my mind as a kid and a serves warning of things to come with AI that kinda became a movie trope, but had some memorable scenes in Dark Star:
<Commander Powell> Talk to the bomb.
<Doolittle> But I have been talking to it, sir. And Pinback's talking to it right now.
<Commander Powell> No, no, Doolittle. You talk to it.
<Commander Powell> Teach it phenomenology
I've got his cartoon books and Colorvision art book, his website is still up:
Disney cel art: (1956-)
Concept Art for Film (1974 - 2015): https://roncobb.net/film.html
Initial Dark Star napkin sketch: https://roncobb.net/img/filmography/02-Dark_Star/441-on-Ship-ds.jpg
Dark Star Gallery: https://roncobb.net/02-Dark_Star.html
https://archive.org/details/dark-star-movie-1974-from-john-carpenter
I haven't seen Silo, but if you like quirky sci-fi like Seksmisja then:
Kin-dza-dza![1], Ivan Vasilevich menyaet professiyu[2], Akumulátor 1[3], Dark Star[4], Na srebrnym globie[5], Zítra vstanu a oparím se cajem[6], The American Astronaut[7]
Bonus round (quirky not sci-fi): Hausu[8], Sedmikrásky[9], Einstein's Brain[10], Gyakufunsha kazoku[11]
[1] https://letterboxd.com/film/kin-dza-dza/
[2] https://letterboxd.com/film/ivan-vasilyevich-changes-his-profession/
[3] https://letterboxd.com/film/accumulator-1/
[4] https://letterboxd.com/film/dark-star/
[5] https://letterboxd.com/film/on-the-silver-globe/
[6] https://letterboxd.com/film/tomorrow-ill-wake-up-and-scald-myself-with-tea/
[7] https://letterboxd.com/film/the-american-astronaut/
[8] https://letterboxd.com/film/house/
[9] https://letterboxd.com/film/daisies/
[10] https://letterboxd.com/film/relics-einsteins-brain/
[11] https://letterboxd.com/film/the-crazy-family/
R.I.P. Dan O'Bannon. Dark Star is another one of my favorites. I think Dan kept that film-school vibe when he penned Alien.
Unlike a lot of others, I am not as big a fan of Aliens. The characters are a bit too corny.
The 70's movie Dark Star even comes with a warning about flashing lights at the beginning, so it would be a great test case for this feature.
And a great fun movie, so it's all gravy.
Makes me think of the future via my favorite scene of one of my favorite sci-fi movies - Dark Star: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h73PsFKtIck
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Star_(film)
> Remember that movies are HIGHLY produced works, each item in a scene...
Your comment makes me think of the movie "Dark Star" where the crewmen sitting in front of these crappy prop control consoles flail away "working" by mashing all the buttons at random. hilarious!
> I was just willing to overlook their flaws
For me personally I think that's a large part of it. For example I loved Dark Star, even though the main "monster" is literally and very obviously a beach ball. There was just so much else that I liked that the beach ball didn't put me off.
I've seen many movies with relatively poor ratings that I enjoyed quite a lot.
Brazil, The man from Earth, Moon, The fountain, Ad Astra, Donnie Darko, Ender's Game, Edge of tomorrow, Solaris (the old one), Westworld (70s), Metropolis (the japanese anime), Dark Star (trippy, 70s, great end), Firefly series and Serenity movie, Attack the block, Fifth Element, planet of the apes (the old one), ex machina, children of men
If copyright laws were removed, would we still have movies that cost $200 million to make? Probably not. Do we really need them? Not really. Cheaper movies would still be made, though.
I've seen a lot of low budget movies that were better than the $200m ones. I don't need special effects to enjoy a movie, I need a plot. Check out "Dark Star", made for $50,000. It's far, far better than 95% of the scifi movies out there. Because it had an interesting plot. "Primer" is another example.
Dark Star. Good movie.
Bomb 20 in the movie _Dark Star_... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjGRySVyTDk
And of course Alien got a few things from Dark Star
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Star_(film)
https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/looking-back-at-john-carpenters-dark-star/
Not sure what it is about this film, the aesthetics, story, atmosphere, the acting? I think it’s perhaps my favourite film. The first 20 mins or so in particular are outstanding.
I’m sure many know but the idea of having the mundane industrial theme transferred to space was supposed to have come from a student film called Dark Star[0].
Alien Isolation is also fantastic though hard to fully enjoy the atmosphere for the most part as it’s fairly terrifying.
There was a piece on hacker news a while back where a programmer talked through how he was asked to code up the graphics for the landing sequence.(3D terrain wireframe).
[0] https://lewtonbus.net/editorials/dark-star-chest-alien-burst/
Dark Star is wonderful!
Also:
- it's the first movie by horror movie legend John Carpenter
- it was co-written by Dan O'Bannon, who also wrote "Alien"
Between the almost annoying seriousness of 2001 and the irresistible madness of Dark Star, Silent Running is in an very difficult spot where it's almost impossible to win anything beyond honorable mention for trying.
But once you've sat through Tarkovsky's Tokio driving sequence in a cinema those three all seem kind of superficial (my opinion, and probably mine alone. And I'm not sure that it would survive a re-watch of Solaris, it's been a while)
Another overlooked gem from this era is "Dark Star".
The dreary psychological effects of prolonged confinement in closed quarters seem particularly poignant today; and the dispute and argument with Bomb is a delightful foreshadowing of the frustrations of dealing with advanced, yet imperfect and inhuman, artificial intellegences.
And yes, the beach ball alien was intendedt be humorous; and yes, the closed-quarter panic in narrow vent shafts was inspirational on later science fiction movies.
While the sibling comment correctly points out Dark Star as the movie, I'd also like to point out Starship Titanic - Douglas Adams was involved in the game, based on a throwaway line from one of the Hitchhiker novels. Terry Jones novelized the game. Both include a talking bomb where the plot involves distracting the bomb until it looses track and has to start counting down all over again.
> With command wire capabilities, the weapon can change its attack geometry or even shut down if directed by the fire control operator. Detected targets can be changed, depth and range limitations can be set, and countermeasures, such as decoys and jammers, can be ignored using the submarine’s sonar data instead of the torpedo's lower-fidelity onboard sonar data. If the data link is lost, the weapon will follow its last given command and execute pre-programmed countermeasure defeating profiles, if necessary.
This somehow reminded me of the final scene from John Carpenter's Dark Star (spoilers, obviously) where a smart bomb wants to blow up (yes, you read that right), and the crew has to talk it into not doing so by using philosophy to give it an existential crisis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h73PsFKtIck
Would it be ethical in trek to build an AI whose sole purpose was to commit suicide?
John Carpenter's Dark Star covers this a little, but mainly for laughs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Star_(film)
I think it's very unlikely. "Things to come" and "metropolis" were huge in their day, but ultimately didn't have the same effect 2001 did. "M" by fritz Lang is my comparator for a film which defined a genre (film noir)
Elements of many films since 2001 have their moments. "Silent running" was probably the first successful eco scifi. "Dark Star" was the precursor comedy scifi. Nobody much wants to laud "interstellar" or "inception" but both have moments of cinematic genius. "Tron" was Disney lite but a neccesary moment.
I could make a case for the original "Solaris" or "stalker" which are beautiful and more about an inner journey than scifi proper.
If you like Alien you might go back to Carpenter’s first movie, Dark Star. And if you like Dark Star you might look at They Live! (That is if you haven’t already.)
That said, I’ll need a very strong recommendation before I see Blade Runner 2.
I'm 0 for Thrillers on this list and only 2 for SciFi. So my word is suspect. But still, I would recommend startup.com for the documentaries.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0256408/
I'd also recommend 2001, Repo Man, Dark Star and They Live on general principles.
Carpenter's debut: Darkstar (1974) is estimated to have a budget of 60k...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Star_(film).
> "This movie has so many cliches in it," a boy said (...) My son told him, "This movie was made in 1986. It invented all the cliches."
The first boy was right. It felt full of cliches even then. I watched it in eighties as soon as it was distributed to my place and I all the time I had that feeling of "boring 'we're the marines' movie." And I still can't understand why would anybody consider Aliens an interesting movie. The first Alien is however something else. And I was always amazed to later watch "The Dark Star" made before the Alien and find it (among the other things) an Alien parody made before the Alien(!) It's really so thanks to Dan O Bannon. Now that's something. Aliens... not even worth mentioning.
Watch Alien, watch The Dark Star. Forget the boring Aliens.
Disclaimer: I'm old enough that I've watched the Star Wars in seventies in my movie theatre. And Mad Max. And and and.. Of course Aliens were already cliches and cliches.
Excellent movie.
Two of the creators in Dark Star (Dan O'Bannon and Ron Cobb) worked on Star Wars, Alien, others. Also George Lucas was of course aware of Dark Star. So it's a bit different from mere predating/anticipating.
(Though you are probably aware of that)
To add a bit more to the conversation: The movie "Dark Star" which cam out in 1974, predating and anticipating many of the sci-fi tropes popularized by Star Wars, Star Trek, etc. The characters have a conversation with a bomb and try to rationalize that it shouldn't detonate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Star_%28film%29
John Carpenter's early science fiction film DARK STAR has a humorous but illustrative discussion with a thermostellar bomb's AI about the limitations of experience and the self:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjGRySVyTDk&t=22s
I love moonbase films! Not that there ever has been one...
And there's a bit of Dark Star in there!