Hacker Cinema
Everybody Loves Raymond
1996 · TV series · 30 min episodes · 9 seasons
Created by Phil Rosenthal
Ray Barone is a successful sportswriter living on Long Island with his wife Debra, daughter Ally, and twin sons, Geoffrey and Michael. Ray's meddling parents, Frank and Marie, and brother, Robert, live directly across the street.
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13 comments on Hacker News
Any human scale "attack", e.g. the made up Everybody Loves Raymond episode isn't doing anything to hurt LLM training data. Might even help them detect exaggeration, satire, etc. when read in context and with other knowledge they have from other sources (like scraping IMDB or whatever, and already knowing the cast and plot summary of every episode of Everybody Loves Raymond).
If there is an effective way to poison them, it'll be automated. And, it'll probably rely on an LLM to produce the poison, since it has to look legit enough to pass the quality filtering and classification stage of the data ingestion process, which is also probably driven by an LLM.
One reason small models are getting better is because the training data being used is not just getting bigger, it's getting cleaner and classified more correctly/precisely. "Model collapse" hasn't happened, yet, even though something like half the web is AI slop, because as the models get smarter for human use in a variety of contexts, they also get smarter for use in preparing data for training the next model. There may very well still be risks of a mad cow disease like problem for LLMs, but I doubt a Markov chain website is going to contribute. The models still can't always tell fact from fiction, but they're not being hoodwinked by a nonsense generator.
It's like that episode of Everybody Loves Raymond where Ray's mom (Marie Barone) creates a sculpture that looks like a womb area, and only Ray and his wife can immediately see the ... hidden image, and Ray's dad (Frank Barone) for some reason is very drawn to the sculpture and he can't quite put his finger on it. After Ray, lets his mom know, then she can't unsee it.
Hilarity ensues.
A couple of years ago, Turkey/Türkiye had a campaign to get people to use Türkiye in English. At that time I flew Turkish airlines, which had a promotional video about this. Then when browsing for a tv show to watch on my seat back screen, I came across an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond with a description something like “on thanksgiving day, Raymond burns the Türkiye“
I mean I get the point you are trying to make but well...
There is a great book by Phil Rosenthal, the creator of 'Everybody loves Raymond' called 'Your lucky you're funny'.
He used to have a job as an overnight security guard in a museum. One night he was feeling very tired and for whatever reason decided to take a nap in one of the displays, this was like the bed of George Washington or something of equal importance. He got woken up by another security guards and was pulled up on it and was fired on the spot.
By Phil asked to be forgiven for this because of his previous good behavior and his superior got him his job back. This was the plot of an episode of Rosanne that Phil wrote.
Sure he got his job back but now everyone else hated him because it showed favoritism, and thus he was eventually forced out of the job by others disliking this.
The overall lesson was, just because you can get back into a position doesn't mean it is a good idea. Maybe if others dislike you that much, why do you keep trying to get back in? Sure they may be petty and it doesn't seem just, but why would you keep trying to get involved in that if the same result happens again and again?
I mean you 2-3 new accounts a month, it sounds like you didn't learn the lesson of Sisyphus. Maybe it is time to just let the boulder roll down the hill and enjoy its tumble to the bottom of the valley.
This! Parenting is not a "Here is the rule, here is the consequence" job. Raising responsible humans requires, well, giving them responsibility, the opportunity for soft failures to learn from and having those awkward long talks and figuring out how to set healthy boundaries.
The other part of the equation: The internet is an important aspect of the current generation's identity and culture. What seems like addiction to us could very well be our children's identity, lifestyle. The comparison to TVs is flawed because TV is not social. The unhealthy aspects have to spoken about in the same vein as drinking and drugs, but any kind of limit-setting that doesn't acknowledge this might push children away from conversation.
There is an hilarious episode of Everybody Loves Raymond that goes into this with refreshing honesty.
It absolutely is; it's the main schtick and premise of the show; it clearly resonated with wide audience, I'm just an outlier for whom it really didn't work.
(FWIW, I'm also the kind of person that didn't love "Everybody Loves Raymond"; it just seemed that characters never learned or tried to get better or showed real empathy / awareness of each other. The schtick seemed that he would "Cluelessly try to get away with stuff" and she would get upset and he would do something sweet and she'd forgive him. Episode after episode season after season. Something like first few seasons of "Mad About You" always seemed more enjoyable, funnier, and more relatable :)
Here's one you don't have yet, and for a change with a documentary, it's actually funny:
"Exporting Raymond" https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1356763/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0
Phil Rosenthal, the creator of Everybody Loves Raymond went to Russia, to help start a Russian TV version of his series. They got the scripts, but they completely recast it with Russian actors and changed a few situations. "What's funny about a guy who's nobody, and lives with his parents?" they asked.
We had Phil and his producer at Google for a Q&A after the screening.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoGwRYUeo1E
Racism in China is a big problem, but the laundry advert alone isn't certainty not a big issue and is pretty over blown: being overly political correct around lighthearted comedy.
The skin pigment 'melanin' is what causes a black person's skin to be black, and is also the same as in a non-black person's tanned skin. It's a added pigment that the absence of causes light skin. Removal of melanin can happen (through non-laundry!) causes such as developing vitiligo, or being born with albinism (a genetic condition which exists in all ethnicities not just black people). Removal of melanin literally turns a darker skinned/haired person white (but obviously not changing other features).
The American TV show Everybody Hates Chris, based on comedian Chris Rock's childhood experiences made almost THE EXACT SAME JOKE more than once [1] [2], making fun of the very strict African-American mother trope of threatening a misbehaving child with 'slapping the black out of you'.
The laundry commercial may have some problematic connections with the ideas of 'clean' and 'attractive'.
America has a long history of minority TV shows aimed at mass audiences tackling stereotypes, Everybody Loves Raymond for Italian-Americans, Fresh Off the Boat for Asian-Americans, and a huge number of African-American cast shows including The Jeffersons, The Cosby Show, Fresh Prince of Belair etc. Comedy shows with characters with minority experiences are a good way to improve understanding. It will be unfortunate if lighthearted comedy dies because excessive political correctness.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44mTfEcP76o [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPmqVW_qLmk
I'm not sure if your cooking analogy holds in this case. As someone who has never operated a record player, I don't think the act of merely setting up the equipment would really add to my experience. If we were talking about replacing a musical instrument with an iPod, then your cooking analogy is more cogent. Perhaps the pleasure is more rooted in nostalgia - I remember an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond in which Frank (the elderly father) shuns a state of the art CD player for his vinyls (https://youtu.be/ZQM6GwUancI), and his reasoning for why was that it reminded him of the enjoyment those records gave him earlier in his working life. It's like when I watch a sketchy VHS of Mr Bean, it reminds me of times with my maternal grandfather in a way a crystal clear DVD copy never could!
funny is what you make it. absurd, depressing, uplifting, idiotic.
I consider this the best comedy on the planet: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2396224/
I also like the stuff by this guy brad neely: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WCiBPjckTg
don't let other people tell you what's funny or you'll be watching carlos mencia and everybody loves raymond.
> What do I do? Do I call him out by name? Right now it's been a week and I'm still working out the best course of action.
Seems like a lot of energy spent on a flippant remark. Those aren't restricted to men saying them about wives/women, either. I don't want to get into some kind of /r/mensrights foolishness here, but have you sat at a coffeeshop and listened to the kinds of remarks women make about their husbands/men generally? It's all over pop culture, go Netflix an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond if you don't believe me.
What do you do? Cross him off your people-I-want-to-mentor-me list and move on with your life.
> The blatant sexism is mostly gone, but the undertones remain. And that makes it harder than ever to gauge what the "right" reaction is as a woman when one of these events happens around you.
If I'm reading this right, you're saying the dongle joke was an undertone of sexism? That doesn't make sense to me. Anatomy != sexism. Unprofessionalism, yes; sexism, no.
"I don't use it. None of my friends use it so it's not popular and won't be successful."
Ah, I really dislike this mentality.
Ever heard of "Everybody Loves Raymond"? It's a TV show that I didn't and none of my friends watched. But guess what? it was the most-watched show in the early 2000s.
How about "Arrested Development"? I watched it. My friends were watching it. Some of my friends still talk about it on Facebook. But guess what? It got canceled because of poor ratings.
What I learned is that in some aspects, I'm not part of the mainstream. My guess is a lot of people in Hacker News aren't either.
Let us not make conclusions on something based on what we or our friends use or like.
There was an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond about this. Ray buys his dad a really nice, new CD system along with CDs of his favorite music. His dad hates it, they get in a big argument, and the episode ends with the dad in the basement listening to the scratchy sounds of his old record player with his eyes closed, obviously taken back to memories of his youth.