Hacker Cinema
Grizzly Man
2005 · Film · documentary · 103 min
Directed by Werner Herzog
Follows the story of "Grizzly Man" Timothy Treadwell and what the thirteen summers in a National Park in Alaska were like in his attempt to protect the grizzly bears. The film is full of unique images and a look into the spirit of a man who sacrificed himself for nature.
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Grizzly Man was the first Herzog documentary I saw and this scene is exactly what you’re talking about and something I still think about when I am with people willing to share the things they alone carry in life: https://youtu.be/hXyQAtXJ4II
I always enjoy hearing from him because he’s so unorthodox and I never have any idea the approach he’s going to take when giving an interview or answering a question.
And I always feel the need to point out that Grizzly Man was a truly good movie. I’d heard about it for years and based on the premise expected to have a low brow appeal, something for dumb people to feel superior to someone. But no, it was a respectful and in-depth character study (with some downright poetic narration) and probably Herzog’s best movie.
> But after hearing about the book there, I was really put off by some of the things he said and concluded that the book would be a hard pass for me.
What are some of those things? I am not trying to be snarky, I like Herzog and I am curious.
One thing to keep in mind is he views documentaries are fiction almost. They are not supposed to be taken in as pure information or facts. Treat it like you’d treat any movie.
You said you liked Grizzly Man. Well there you can tell the reason he put in the coroner in there and he told him to “act” and the extra long pauses after the scenes are there to add awkwardness. It should be obvious what is going on.
I recently rewatched https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grizzly_Man. It's a Werner Herzog film about Timothy Treadwell's story. It's a classic story of "well, his heart was definitely in the right place" kind of a situation.
Charlie Russell, a Canadian naturalist who worked with Treadwell offered a different perspective on it http://cloudline.org/treadwell.html. He is a bit critical of how Herzog presented Treadwell and the bears in the documentary.
Fascinating paper. The primary point doesn't seem to be that Hetzog has bent any facts, but willfully presents his subjective interpretation of the world.
It is more akin to the idea that all perception, thought, meaning, and opinions operate in a realm distinct from the material world.
The following sentences after your quote make this clear.
>But is Grizzly Man a documentary at all? Is it a "true" or appropriate representation of reality? Most scholars presently writing on documentary posit that the duplication of realities through cinema is always fictional because of its use of rhetorical figures and emblematic symbolism, regardless of claims of objectivity or historical significance. As a filmmaker, Herzog shares this ideological: all documentary is false even if it conveys the myth of objectivity
Not the OP, but I have some of the same concern. No, it's not a "mockumentary"; yes, it's based on true events; but based on some of Herzog's other films and public statements, there are good reasons to doubt that it's a straight factual account of what happened. Herzog has frequently stated that he's not trying to relate straight facts, but is going for a deeper truth.
In pursuit of this, he's frequently bent the facts in his other "documentaries" to achieve the narrative that he's aiming for. I vouched for the parent comment because I think it's a view that should be discussed rather than suppressed. I like his art, but equating a Herzog documentary with factual truth is likely to end badly.
I've only skimmed it (and I don't have time to read it closer today) but this looks to be a decent academic paper that explores some of the problems with Grizzly Man:
Conceiving Grizzly Man through the "Powers of the False"
...
But is Grizzly Man a documentary at all? Is it a "true" or appropriate representation of reality? Grizzly Man engages in "creative falsification" -- a cinematic concept theorized by Gilles Deleuze in which the filmmaker generates optical images which bond to virtual images (or images that evoke a people's general past, fantasies, and dreams) to reveal some representation of "truth"
https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/scope/documents/2008/june-2008/dewberry.pdf
I am also real life Grizzly Man. Watching Herzogs film 10 years later caused some indigestion.
Those damn bears totally ignored me. At this beach family of bears walked past my tent and did not even bother to investigate. https://youtu.be/IK0wJ9y266I?si=TokV4ewiEvhl5Qev&t=1470
The reason was probably that I really did not have anything to eat. Just some kilos of flour for rainy days. I was living on fish and berries for 3 months.
Here is the list from the thread: --- 1. A Man Named Pearl
2. Once Upon a Time in Northern Ireland
3. Microcosmos
4. Crip Camp!
5. Keep The River On Your Right
6. All The Beauty And The Bloodshed
7. Harlan County USA
8. Stay on Board: The Leo Baker Story
9. Good Night Oppy
10. We Met in Virtual Reality
11. All That Breathes
12. Still
13. Can’t Be Stopped
14. The Amazing Jonathan Documentary
15. Searching for Sugarman
16. AKA Mr Chow
17. The Pigeon Tunnel
18. Little Richard: I Am Everything
19. I Know That Voice
20. Genghis Blues
21. Kings of Pastry
22. 20 Feet From Stardom
23. Stevie
24. Anvil: the Story of Anvil
25. Searching for Sugar Man
26. King of Kong
27. The Gleaners and I
28. Touching the Void
29. Cane Toads: An Unnatural History
30. 20 Days in Mariupol
31. Minding the Gap
32. How to Survive a Plague
33. Speciesism
34. Free Solo
35. Jim Allison: Breakthrough
36. Seven Up! series
37. Bowling for Columbine
38. The Fog of War
39. Rivers and Tides
40. Capturing the Friedmans
41. Spellbound
42. King of Kong
43. Crip Camp
44. Jesus Camp
45. Jiro Dreams of Sushi
46. Flee
47. Man on Wire
48. Queen of Versailles
49. The Thin Blue Line
50. Time Indefinite
51. The Gleaners and I
52. My Life as a Turkey
53. Happy People
54. Grizzly Man
If I may ask, for someone who heard but never actually had pleasure to touch his masterpieces except Grizzly Man, what would be 3 films (or 5) you would recommend to start, or rather continue, with?
I would recommend you watch Grizzly Man as an introduction to him
Herzog is easily one of the greatest filmmakers alive today. He was at the forefront of the German New Wave of the 1970s, and has continued to produce great films throughout the following decades.
Many of his best films are documentaries, but he frequently blurs the lines between fiction and nonfiction, such as by giving his documentary subjects scripted lines or by using non-actors in his movies; he calls his approach to art the pursuit of "ecstatic truths". Among the general public, his most well-known film is undoubtedly Grizzly Man, which is a very good film, but he has made many that are just as good. My favorite of his is Lessons of Darkness, which is a kind of audiovisual poem showing the destructiveness of humankind through images. The film opens with a quote from Blaise Pascal, which was in fact invented by Herzog himself [1].
Herzog is also a very, very good writer (and he somewhat paradoxically prefers, according to this interview, to be remembered as a writer rather than as a filmmaker). His non-fiction books Conquest of the Useless is great, and Of Walking on Ice is supposed to be wonderful. He just came out with his first novel, The Twilight World, as well as the autobiography mentioned in the article. For a taste, one chapter of the autobiography was published in The New Yorker [2] recently.
[1] https://www.bu.edu/arion/files/2010/03/Herzog.pdf
[2] https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/08/28/the-mysteries-of-pittsburgh
He’s produced some popular documentaries with a distinctive narration and storytelling style. Grizzly Man is one of his more famous movies.
Had any of the examples been Lessons of Darkness or Grizzly Man or Burden of Dreams, this conversation would have gone quite differently, but since none of those films were released on Youtube they were not even an option to begin with.
Which movies? The only one I didn’t like was the one about the internet, Lo and Behold. I feel like maybe he was just from too many eras ago to understand how full of shit all the people he was interviewing were. All the rest of his movies always make me understand the world and humans on a deeper level than I did before. Happy People, Into the Inferno, Grizzly Man, the one about the cave paintings, the one about the South Pole.
I loved Koyaanisqatsi, trailer here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PirH8PADDgQ Not your typical documentary.
Anything by Werner Herzog is incredible as well, I find his approach extremely sympathetic and respectful to the subjects but without sacrificing detail (EG Grizzly Man)
Not strictly a documentary, but Threads by the BBC is a researched film depicting life in the UK if every city was hit by a nuke and it was incredibly disturbing and informative: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threads_(1984_film)
Carl Sagan's Cosmos has to be one of the most charming and moving documentaries I've ever watched - arguably a little out of date now but it reached a place the subsequent Cosmos series just couldn't reach.
MayDay! Air crash investigations are all amazing documentaries that manage to balance pretty intense technical information with real life suffering very skilfully and they are incredibly engaging.
Top 5
1. First Contact (1982) - Possibly the best documentary ever made https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085544/
2. Rivers and Tides (2001) - Beautiful meditation on the art of Andy Goldsworthy, with music by Fred Frith https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0307385/
3. This is the Last Dam Run of Likker I'll Ever Make (2002) - The story of Popcorn Sutton https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glQjCKAI4gA
4. Alone in the Wilderness (2004) - Mostly original footage and commentary by Richard Proenneke https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0437806/
5. Apollo 11 (2019) - Narration-free documentary on the first moon landing https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8760684/
Bonus picks:
Pirates of Silicon Valley (1999) is a dramatization but an incredibly accurate one https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0168122/
If mockumentaries count, everything by Christopher Guest is obligatory. There's also this short gem on the Centrifuge Brain Project https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVeHxUVkW4w
Grizzly Man (2005) is not a mockumentary, but like most Herzog documentaries, it's not exactly straight https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427312/
Finally, I'm a huge fan of first-nuclear-era documentaries made by the U.S. government, e.g.
Army Nuclear Power Program (1963) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPWDMHH4rY4
SNAP 8 Reactor (1963) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82nCRWawfhQ
SNAPSHOT (1964) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9jI1Hdl5Yw
Remote Maintanence of Molten Salt Reactors (?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHT-w2x6dDg
and many more.
I love documentaries, and these are my favourites. All very worth a watch.
- The Crash Reel
- McConkey
- Buck
- Apollo 11
- Carts of Darkness
- The Wild and Wonderful Whites of West Virginia
- Samsara
- Baraka
- Brooklyn Castle
- Spellbound
- Drew: The Man Behind the Poster
- Crumb
- The Jinx
- The Art of Flight
- King of Kong
- Indie Game: The Movie
- Capturing the Friedmans
- OJ: Made in America
- The Barkley Marathons
- The Seven Five
- Murderball
- Unbranded
- Gringo: The Dangerous Life of John McAfee
- Big River Man
- Hoop Dreams
- Word Wars
- Free Solo
- Long Shot
- Meru
- Being Elmo
- All This Mayhem
- Jiro Dreams of Sushi
- The Cove
- Project Nim
- Alone in the Wilderness
- Behind the Curve
- The Dawn Wall
- Grizzly Man
- 13th
- Winnebago Man
- Man vs Snake: The Long and Twisted Tale of Nibbler
- Get Me Roger Stone
- Icarus
- 13th
- Koyaanisqatsi
- The Thin Blue Line
- An Inconvenient Truth
- Oklahoma City
- Virunga
- The Staircase
- Evil Genius
- Undefeated
- Betting on zero
If you haven’t already seen it, I would highly recommend the film Grizzly Man about someone who lived with bears.
https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0427312/
A sick, old, hungry bear is a dangerous bear just watch how the documentary about the Grizzly Man ended.
I love many of Werner's movies (and dislike a couple). He tends to root things in historical fact without going too far afield. His protagonists are usually realistically flawed and frequently outright unhinged (e.g. most of Kinski's roles). Many of his films have a uniquely lyrical character, and his taste in music usually coincides with my own. (If you hate the music a director chooses it often makes it hard to like his films). His documentaries (e.g. "Little Dieter Needs to Fly" or "Grizzly Man") feature unique and fascinating people, and Herzog digs deep into their stories.
It's okay to hate good films though. A big part of appreciating culture is learning to recognize when something is good, but not for you. e.g. Many go gaga for Antonioni's "L'Avventura". It may have done some pretty revolutionary things for film, but I hate it with a passion. I can't stand it's plot structure and loathe every one of it's characters. I recognize that it is a good film, but also that it's not for me.
Be careful to say, "I didn't like that film" instead of "That is a bad film because I didn't like it".
It's real. "could be real"? hehe. Yeah, Treadwell did his filming of himself, Herzog came along after his death and put together the movie, did the interviews, voiceover etc. He often encourages the bizarre in his docos, doesn't edit it out, often leaves the camera rolling on an interviewee ages longer than anyone else would - I love that. Uses the least appropriate music imaginable (which often works brilliantly) I know what you mean, they seem very, very odd. It's mainly that every other camera person/director tries to make things/people seem relatively normal, not-weird.
I've seen almost all Herzog's docos, all worth seeing, Grizzly Man is my favourite though. The one about the internet, from a couple of years ago, is one of his best also. Try Fata Morgana for weirdness, or the bleak/beautiful Lessons of Darkness, both set in the desert.
Grizzly Man was a tough watch for me. Treadwell clearly had massive self-esteem and likely mental health issues, which were on display in this film.
I would recommend Kevin Kelly's website truefilms.com for a great list of documentaries on a large variety of topics. No matter what your interests are you're sure to find something interesting on here.
Werner Herzog has produced a number of fascinating documentaries that are just as good as his fictional films in my opinion. Wings of Hope, Encounters at the End of the World, Cave of Forgotten Dreams, Grizzly Man--he has an enormous talent for drawing profound, almost mythical ideas out of the subjects he captures. He's not for everyone, certainly, but his films have a unique vision you don't often see in documentaries.
Grizzly Man: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427312/ -- the folly of humans when it comes to interacting with wild animals well illustrated
The Fog of War: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0317910/ -- whoa. Just: whoa.
The Thin Blue Line: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thin_Blue_Line_(1988_film) -- when a conviction goes wrong.
I guess I really like Errol Morris and Herzog? Probably.
Titicut Follies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titicut_Follies
The Emperor's Naked Army Marches On: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor%27s_Naked_Army_Marches_On
Grizzly Man: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grizzly_Man
Burden of Dreams: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083702/
Boatman: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106445/
For wild-life I'll pick any Cousteau or BBC documentary
---Below are French movies (but worth trying to find in English)---
Depardon's Profils Paysans trilogy : https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0284409/
L'Inde fantôme : https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063914/
Grizzly Man still gives me goose bumps: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427312/
I loved his documentary Grizzly Man (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grizzly_Man). His voice was definitely part of why for me as well.
No, not really. You can tell a true story with a narrative film, or a documentary; what Herzog believes is that there is a truth beyond a strictly factual accounting, and he makes movies informed by this belief. There are a variety of techniques, but the most obvious is inserting himself into someone else's story, whether this is talking explicitly about the difficulties of making Cave Of Forgotten Dreams, or the scenes in Grizzly Man where he views Treadwell's death footage and then makes an in-camera judgement about showing it more widely; or basically all of Little Dieter Needs To Fly, wherein he takes Dengler back to Indochina and subjects him to much of the same suffering he experienced in his escape.
This also works in reverse, of course, notably with Fitzcarraldo, where he replicates an insane feat of human ingenuity that wasn't actually part of the real life Fitzcarrald's story.
In any event, all of Herzog's movies are worth viewing from my highly fan-boyish perspective.
Cosmos is wonderful. But I'd mostly rather read to learn, it's faster.
I'm a huge fan of documentaries that aren't mind-expanding and focus on quirky subcultures:
King of Kong - Never cared about professional video gamers, but this film made me care deeply for 90 minutes.
Spellbound - The incredible varied backstories behind the kids in the national spelling bee
Grizzly Man - Don't even know how to describe this one. See Alaska through the eyes of a crazy person.
Monster Camp - About people into live-action roleplaying. The culture clash with the couple on a leisurely stroll through the park that has no idea what's going on around them is one of the all-time great moments in documentaries.
American Movie - Couldn't tell if this was real or Christopher Guest at first. It's real. It's awesome.
Werner Herzog's documentaries, for example Grizzly Man, My best fiend (not sure it exist in English), Wings of Hope (That is, if you don't mind a heavy German accent which after watching quite a few I strangely enjoy now as it becomes kind of his trademark)
I didn't feel bad for Timothy Treadwell when he got eaten by a grizzly bear as covered in the film, Grizzly Man. It was almost expected given his actions.
Werner Herzog has made a number of excellent documentaries. Here are a few of them with brief summaries.
Lessons of Darkness: the aftermath of the first Gulf War in Kuwait.
Little Dieter Wants to Fly: A young German emigrates to the USA, become a Navy pilot, and is shot down in Vietnam. He escapes and lives to tell the tale. Herzog later re-made this as Rescue Dawn, but the original version is better.
Encounters at the End of the World: Herzog travels to Antarctica.
My Best Fiend: Herzog recounts his movie-making with Klaus Kinski. (For the counterpoint, read Kinski's autobiography, "Kinski Uncut.)
The White Diamond: an experimental zeppelin flies over Guyana.
Grizzly Man: Bear aficionado gets too close and is eaten. Herzog assembled this one from the aficonado's footage and narrates.
Out of all of these, I'd rate "Dieter" as the best.