Hacker Cinema
October Sky
1999 · Film · 107 min
Directed by Joe Johnston
The true story of Homer Hickam, a coal miner's son who was inspired by the first Sputnik launch to take up rocketry against his father's wishes.
16 positive6 neutralfrom 22 commenters
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23 comments on Hacker News
I thought it was a little odd that he mentioned "impressive for a high school senior in 1969" multiple times throughout -- honestly I would imagine that growing up in the Space Age would have had a massive influence on technically minded folks, reminds me of that movie from a while back called October Sky.
OP here. I see your point. But think of what's needed to create this game:
- From high school physics, you know to start with a free body diagram. There are two forces, gravity and thrust. So far, your average high school student with an A in physics should be able to do that.
- Gravity depends on the distance to the center, which of course is changing, that's the whole point of a lander. I mean, you start 120 miles up. You have to realize it doesn't change much, so can be approximated as a constant. But you've been exposed to that in physics class, so maybe you just assume it's a constant.
- How the hell does thrust work as a function of burn rate? Is the exhaust velocity higher when you burn more? In other words, considering 100 lbs/sec vs 200 lbs/sec, when you double the flow of fuel into the engine, and then you burn it, it turns into twice as much fuel in the same volume. Wouldn't it be forced out at twice the speed? Or at least a higher speed? Maybe you think of the universal gas law, PV=nRT. The volume is constant (the volume of the engine), n is doubled, R is a universal constant. So that means P or T changes, or both. Why is T, which is a function of the velocity of the molecules, constant why P is doubled? Why don't both change?
- So you talk to your Dad, who happens to be a physicist. Most high school students, even those getting an A in physics, don't have a physicist for a father who can look up the properties of rocket engines and find the Tsiolkovsky rocket equation. So a high school senior finding the rocket equation is impressive to me.
- To go from velocity to position, you need to integrate. I'm not sure your average A physics senior would think of replace the FLOG() call with a Taylor series and integrating it term by term.
- How many terms of the Taylor series do you need? Does it even converge for you? If he thought of these subtleties, that's impressive. But it's possible that young Jim didn't realize these issues and just uses 5 terms because that seemed like a lot of terms.
- So now you can simulate it in near the moon. Cool! But how do you detect when it hits the ground? You could try to solve for altitude equals zero, and see if there are zero or more solutions. But even if there are solutions, they might be in the past or the future. So instead you decide to look where the velocity is zero, since you know this happens exactly once during the turn. I think that shows some ingenuity there, although I don't know if that was 18 year old Jim's thought process.
- So you try to invert the rocket equation: given a desired delta-V, how much fuel do you need to burn to achieve it? If you try this with pencil and paper and high school math, including Calculus, you keep getting stuck. You don't have the tools to show that it's actually impossible and needs you to introduce a new function, the Lambert W.
- So maybe you give up, or maybe your physicist Dad helps you again. Using your Taylor series, you now have to solve a 5th degree polynomial. So you decide to scrap the 3rd, 4th and 5th term to get yourself a quadratic. Why is it ok to scrap these now, when it wasn't ok when computing the regular dynamics? I'm impressed that he realized he can use different levels of approximation in different circumstances, without it generating some inconsistencies or other problems.
- You somehow figure out how to use the alternate form of the quadratic equation, which means you didn't just look it up and type it in. Possibly impressive.
Pretty cool, the offending line seems to be 08.10 [1].
I thought it was a little odd that he mentioned "impressive for a high school senior in 1969" multiple times throughout -- honestly I would imagine that growing up in the Space Age would have had a massive influence on technically minded folks, reminds me of that movie from a while back called October Sky.
In the interview in TFA with the game's author he mentions being skilled at calculus--seems to me that if you were interested in space/rocketry/etc. and had the aptitude it makes sense that you'd try your hand at programming a lunar landing game.
[1]: https://www.cs.brandeis.edu/~storer/LunarLander/LunarLander/LunarLanderListingText.txt
As a WVU grad who grew up there: ya, pretty much. Outside of some select towns and cities, WV is poor as shit, and it's only getting worse. Lots of abandoned towns, homelessness, and very few jobs. Even when coal mining was big, it wasn't exactly a thriving area. The movie October Sky is a great rendition of what it was like in the 50s, the coal company owned everything, and was the only source for anyone's income. Now imagine that 70 years later with all the coal companies gone, and tons of painkillers.
Its a very sad state, anyone I knew with half a brain who grew up there wanted nothing but to leave. Even those in good situations were all looking to move far away after college.
I haven't seen these mentioned yet: Galaxy Quest, The Fifth Element, Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets, Oblivion, Tron: Legacy, Mission to Mars, Pacific Rim, Bicentennial Man, Alita: Battle Angel (some of these may be PG-13)
Treasure Planet and Titan A.E. are also good animated movies, although Treasure Planet is more science-fantasy.
I'd also second Back to the Future, Contact, Interstellar, Gattaca, October Sky
Another aspect of this issue is the apparent difference in intellectual preparedness of kids today. I think this is partly due to educational environment and partly a result of selection bias (in that accounts of the past focus on the "smart" kids).
When I was a teenager, rummaging around the attic at grandma's house I stumbled upon my dad's old scientific stuff. I was shocked at the sophistication of what a high schooler did in the 1950s. For example, there were projects to build radio circuitry, with the expectation you would have a mathematical understanding of the function of every component. By my time in the 1970s, home electronics projects aimed at teenagers had devolved to "Stick this here, and that there, and connect the battery, and gee whiz isn't that neat!"
He also did what would today be college level chem experiments, without aid or supervision. A batch of nitroglycerin was one of his less wise projects. I think it was memories of his own near-disasters that caused him to watch over me like a hawk during my own youthful experimenting.
The level of ability and initiative in a high school student as shown in the movie October Sky (1999) was certainly not typical in the 1950s, but I think it was more common than modern experience would lead you to expect.
Great story. Reminds me of the book and movie October Sky, in which the protagonists, who are high school students, strive to learn calculus so that they can learn how to better build rockets.
> In 1999, after watching the rocketry biopic film October Sky, Bezos discussed forming a space company with science-fiction author Neal Stephenson.[23][24] Blue Origin was founded in 2000 in Kent, Washington, and began developing both rocket propulsion systems and launch vehicles.[25] Since the founding, the company was quite secretive about its plans[26][27] and emerged from its "self-imposed silence" only after 2015.[25] .... As early as 2005, Bezos had discussed plans to create a vertical-takeoff and landing spaceship called New Shepard. Plans for New Shepard were initially kept quiet, but Blue Origin's website indicated Bezos' desire to, "lower the cost of spaceflight so that we humans can better continue exploring the solar system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Origin
I had no idea. I always assumed he was inspired by SpaceX. October Sky is a great movie btw.
Since my divorce, I've found that I get a lot of help out of media like this for recharging my spirit to work on things. Sometimes kids' movies are the best, because they aren't at all about the 'how', but they are about the 'why'. Here's a list of a few that I find helpful:
Tomorrowland
Big Hero 6
Robots (2005)
The Martian
Sneakers
Real Genius
Wargames
Macguyver (80s show)
Cosmos
October Sky
Iron Man
The Astronaut Farmer
Flight of the Phoenix
Something Ventured
Now if I can only figure out how to get a team behind me like in those movies... :)
I found October sky movie to be pretty motivating.
Which is why their heavy investments in making high quality films out of the first film for each character is the real key.
Click into each director of the phase 1 films. They were all multi-decade successes, with their biggest films fitting well with what they’re after.
Rudy, Swingers -> Iron Man
Transporter movies -> Hulk
OG Jumanji, October Sky -> Cpt America
They made big bets up front and it’s paid dividends, and then some.
One of my favorites from 1999 is October Sky. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0132477/
Reminds me of the movie October Sky. I always laughed at the launching sequence where the rockets keep exploding.
I just watched the movie October Sky for the first time last night. It really resonated with me as I use to make my own rocket engines. I think kids figuring out things on their own is the real way to go. It’s going to have to come from the individual for it to matter.
> In Idaho, a lumberjack had a son, who he hoped would also become a lumberjack. But this kid liked rockets...
Reminds me of the movie "October Sky". Highly recommended.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Sky
"Most of the old hands and historians of the moon shot point to the public in the 70s no longer being afraid of the Russians in the way they had been in the 50s, and the successful moon landings helped assuage their fears."
That's what I realized about 10 years ago. The primary political motivation for the space missions was to establish higher ground in a military strategic sense, and once that was accomplished, most people didn't care about it anymore. There was also an element of prestige to it, at least from Americans' perspective, that because we had reached a "higher" point in space than the Russians did, that gave us a sense of dominance over their extension of power.
You know this already, but people should keep in mind that what got the ball rolling was the launch of Sputnik in 1957. The message that most people got from that was that the Russians controlled higher ground, militarily, and that we needed to capture that pronto, or else we were going to be at a disadvantage in the nuclear arms race.
It also created a major push, as I understand, by the federal government to put more of an emphasis on math and science education, to seed the population of people who would be needed to pull that off. I've heard thinking that this created a generation of scientists and engineers who eventually came into industry, which created the technological products we eventually came to use. There's been a positive sense of that legacy from people who have reviewed it, but I've since heard from people who went through the "new math" that was taught through that push. They hated it with a passion, and said it turned them off to math for many years to come.
The more positive aspect I like to reflect on is that Sputnik inspired young people to become interested in math, science, and engineering on their own, and they really experienced those disciplines. A nice portrayal of one such person is in the movie "October Sky," based on Homer Hickam's autobiographical book, "Rocket Boys."
The problem with these online streaming services I face is that I try to use them mostly for one crucial purpose and that is recommendation - and they always fail to recommend anything that appeals to me. I want to find new songs, new artists that I would like. But these services never helped me with that.
I don't like rap, hip-hop, or metal. I mostly like rock, some pop etc but that too not too loud. I don't really know how much "not loud"; that's where I thought these recommendation engines would kick in. I have found couple of artists/songs that I just love on Bandcamp (awesome place). But Spotify, Apple Music (this one has been an utter disappointment for me), and many other streaming services that I've tried in my country just didn't cut it.
What have helped me over the years are films, blogs, tweets etc. Something random playing on a bus, or a film soundtrack, a TV show theme song. Like that song A Chi that I heard while watching The Best of Youth. It was in Italian and I didn't understand a word but I just instantly connected to it. I loved it. That German song from The Night Porter - from there I discovered Marlene Dietrich's Lili Marleen. Or Many a tears from October Sky, or that song from Twelve Monkeys. And there are some like Amélie (well, every tune is fabulous in this one) where I disconvered Guilty by Al Bowlly. A friend once, out of the blue, told me to check out Imagine Dragons and later I listenred to Demons like crazy; on repeat. Or a chance hearing of a tune in an Iranian film that was composed by an Iranian artist. It's the best song of melancholy I have ever heard and it doesn't have any lyrics.
I even found some nice ones on WCD before it was burnt down. I got there late; or rather started exploring late. Its recommendations were a lot better than the streaming serives, at least for me.
What I find surprising is that I benefit from recommendation services for books, films a lot, but for music I've never been able to find recommendation service that tries to find that nerve or even something close to it that is a person's musical taste and then recommends tunes around that. Maybe unlike books just the lyrics of a song aren't enough and it's very difficult to discern how a tune would sound good or boring to a listener. I've tried a lot and after some time I gave up. Maybe I was doing soemething wrong or I should try services that just to music recommendation, and not streaming maybe.
I'm reminded of the film "October Sky" where Jake Gyllenhaal's character (and I feel like a terrible nerd for not recalling the character, who is (was?) an actual NASA engineer, iirc), upon witnessing Sputnik-1 on a clear night, became obsessed with space flight and rocketry in particular. Got himself a bunch of really advanced texts on the subject and just powered through them, lazily learning the necessary math as needed, as you suggest. Once a poor student (bit of a slacker), he went on to make himself some rockets in relatively short order.
Excellent flick. If you haven't seen it, I recommend giving it a watch.
"Seven habits of a highly effective Teen" (Sean Covey) - probably the book that has influenced me the most in my life so far. Read it when I was thirteen or fourteen.
"October Sky" (Homer Hickam) - OK, I originally watched this as a movie and only read the book it's based on recently; but the movie was incredibly inspiring to me.
Really? I thought the first Iron Man movie was a great depiction of iterating on a product design.
I guess it isn't quite as much an engineer's movie as Apollo 13 or October Sky, but I definitely view it as one.
For inspiration, I tend to prefer movies rooted in a real life story. A couple of movies already mentioned that fall into that category: The Pursuit of Happyness and October Sky. I also really like Shine, Cool Runnings, and Take the Lead.
Favorite scene from Shine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-QrSc_Jw3g
October Sky. This is one of the inspirational movie i can think of now.
I tend to be fond of movies based on true stories. For true stories about people who set an impossible-sounding goal and accomplished it, I will nominate "October Sky" and "Cool Runnings". Neither has an office setting. The first is about a young man who did not want to end up a coal miner, like his father. He and some friends began making rockets and managed to parley that into college scholarships. IIRC, he ultimately ended up working for NASA. The second is about the origin of the first Jamaican bobsled team (that went to the Olympics).
Hopefully, people will see how this might be relevant to folks wanting to found a new business. Office Space is a good movie but is now kind of disturbing to me as someone who currently works in cubicleville. I think of it as "dire warning" rather than "inspiration".
Not all are hacker movies per se, but these have great general geek appeal:
Existenz http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0120907/
Cube http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0123755/
The Nines http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0810988/
The World's Fastest Indian http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0412080/
October Sky http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0132477/
Three Days of the Condor http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0073802/