Hacker Cinema
Sex and the City
1998 · TV series · 6 seasons
Created by Darren Star
Based on the bestselling book by Candace Bushnell, Sex and the City tells the story of four best friends, all single and in their late thirties, as they pursue their careers and talk about their sex lives, all while trying to survive the New York social scene.
3 positive6 negative23 neutralfrom 32 commenters
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32 comments on Hacker News
So I've been thinking about this. It's more general than social media and sardines.
There are now areas of the world with overtourism. Santorini, arguably Venice, Machu Pichu and maybe even Barcelona have more tourists than they can support. It's becoming a huge problem. Why is this the case? It's in part because people have disposable income to visit these places but I think there's a larger issue of why people want to visit these places. I think there's a FOMO element and the idea is pushed by social media in particular and media in general.
As another example, I blame at least in part the crazy NYC rent situation on Sex and the City, particularly on rents in the West Village. If you've lived in NYC you know there's so many SATC girlies living out their NYC dreams and not all of them have trust funds. You see this reflected in rents too. One side of 14th Street is Chelsea. The other side is the West Village. Rents on the Chelsea side are significantly lower than the other side because people want to be able to say they live in the West Village.
On a smaller scale you see this where people seem to view themselves as the main character in a movie or TV show and they're living out these scenes in their heads, typically to video and post online. They can be really inconsiderate about it too. Like just today I saw a video that someone in a public beach "dared" go in the water while someone was trying to get a photo of themselves and that other person got in frame. It really is main character syndrome [1].
I think what made a lot of things good in the past was lack of information (and the resultant FOMO). You've seen this in food trends too when Omega-3 became big and fish stocks suffered or when palm oil became big and that's a big problem.
Interestingly, China has a system to try and prevent everyone flocking to one or two cities ("hukou") and it's hard not to see the argument for this.
I have several triggers when I'm doomscrolling. One of the worst is when someone says "I'm trying the viral (restaurant, dish, bakery, bar, whatever)..." I've always hated this because whatever it is is never worth it. But the psychology of people wanting to show off this way is fascinating. It really feels like people's lives are that empty that they just want that external validation.
[1]: https://health.clevelandclinic.org/what-to-know-about-main-character-syndrome
I'd have to be younger, 3 notches to the left of Lenin, and in a perpetual billionaires-are-evil rage mode to find it compelling. Got through most of the first season, which is a rare point to quit a show... we either quit after the first episode, or make it all the way to the end. Painfully bad, and not half as much as the stupid Sex and the City way either.
Have been using Suno over the last few iterations and can vouch for this; steering the final product with style tags is a lot better now and I can use more natural language rather than trying to come up with what the genre specific "wordings" for certain styles of music would be. Good to know the tip about the brackets in lyrics too.
Some examples of style descriptions I've used that generated results close to what I had in mind are "romantic comedy intro music, fast and exciting, new york city" (aiming for something like the Sex and the City theme) and "mature adult romance reality tv show theme song, breakbeats, seductive, intimate, saxophones, lots of saxophones" which did indeed produce cheesy porn music.
No one in Asia wants to visit nyc because of friends, sienfeld or sex and the city. These shows to them are mostly raw garbage. The reason is because these shows are culturally focused. Its catered exclusively to the type of American humor and values that most people in Asia do not give two shits about.
They want to visit Hollywood because they want to see the technology that built these blockbusters because internationally everyone understands heroism, sacrifice and special effects. Additionally these movies aren’t watered down. The writing and the effects have gone through years of development to get to that point. It just doesn’t cater to your sensibilities. The term is snobbish.
The writing for Seinfeld and friends and sex and the city took years to get where they are. These aren’t inborn cultural talents. You can easily compare stories from past American movies to see how cheesy and stupid they are. It takes development for stories to come to where they are today and it’s a back and forth between the audience and writers. As writers write more stories audience members learn and become more sophisticated and twists and humor that worked in the past become cliche. Why do you think you’re too snobbish to appreciate something like avengers? You think someone in the 50s wouldn’t appreciate it? Fuck honestly if the whole mcu up till end game came out in the 50s that whole thing would win a Nobel peace prize.
China is 100% going through this learning process right now. The audiences sophistication and the writers as a result are growing at a breakneck pace. I think movies from China that might appeal to who you are is crouching tiger hidden dragon or Hero as these movies share the more universally appreciated parts of Chinese culture and since that is what you’re interested in, I recommend them to you.
It’s so funny that this all came up today, last night my partner showed me the episode of Sex and the City where Carrie and Sam travel from NYC to San Francisco by train, though it’s mostly depicted as being an annoying hassle (imo their expectations of what train travel would be like were too high).
I went down a dark hole generating content using ChatGPT, including writing:
* a letter to the president of BofA explaining what bofa means
* a sarcastic review of my Krav Maga school
* an episode of Sex and the City, except the cast is very dim
* a bio for HN explaining that I make a lot of logic errors
Overall, the results were very impressive.
I think that one major difference is that the iPhone supported an "easy" way to do software updates, which was never a thing prior to smartphones.
Remember that the iPhone wasn't really that good at launch, either. No copy/paste, no App Store, etc. There is a scene in the movie Sex and the City, which was filmed pre-launch (right?). One character hands an iPhone to the other, who looks at it for a few seconds and says something along the lines of "I don't know how to use this" and hands it back.
In the episode, the character known as Mr. Big, played by Chris Noth, suffers a heart attack and dies after his 1,000th workout. The event shocked longtime fans of the show, and seemingly gave investors in the company a shock, too, for making a link between the company's eponymous exercise bike and the possibility of a heart attack.
The show apparently got permission from the company for the product placement, but the company didn't know the context of the appearance.
Meanwhile, my respect for Sex and the City surges by 5000 percent for pulling off this prank. "They'll never let us do this", they must have been saying to themselves.
Simply brilliant.
HBO just announced a new season of "Sex and the City" on HBO Max. It occurred to me that although I've never watched an episode of the original series all the way through, I know all the characters names and their basic story arcs - the show was just part of popular culture when it was new and you couldn't help but hear about it. There's nothing like that now. My kids couldn't even tell you what shows are on - I doubt they could even name the broadcast stations.
> That said, I'm not that surprised that men feel that way, considering that having been with many women, an absurdly large percentage of them were shocked to be with an uncircumcised man,
I remember an episode of Sex and the City where one of the character was put off by an uncircumcised penis.
That being said, as a European uncircumcised man living in NYC, I haven't received any bad comment about my penis (but new york is a diverse place, so that may be why). In any case, I can't imagine it can't be a deal breaker. But at the same time, I can see why some would find an uncircumcised penis prettier .
>Your point is valid regarding the size of the niche here, but there are probably a thousand other niches that would combine—long tail fashion—into a good chuck of market share.
What niches would those be? Why is HBO Max responsible for all of them? Their parent company made committments to censorship before HBO Max even existed back to when DVDs were being introduced, as stated in the article. I don't even know why OP and yourself are going after HBO for this, apparently Warner Bros made this decision twenty years ago.
> As far as families being upset about their kids auto-playing into offensive content, HBO has already solved for this. They have Sex and the City and The Sopranos on that platform.
Dunno if you use HBO Max or not but, like Netflix, they separate UI and content by age group of the current user
> Mark the naughty T&J episodes as "TV-MA", and a kid-filtered view won't show them, right? (I guess the question is whether they have this ability per-episode, or only at the series level)
Or just not, and not deal with any further possible ramifications. All of these "historical"/"archival purposes/I'm a sensible adult" arguments for Tom and Jerry apply just as well to Amos & Andy since we're really talking about censoring jokes about Black people's physical appearance. Almost seems like a dog whistle if I had more evidence.
> That is a very small audience compared to the very large audience of families who would be upset if the their kids auto-played into unexpected blackface.
Your point is valid regarding the size of the niche here, but there are probably a thousand other niches that would combine—long tail fashion—into a good chuck of market share.
As far as families being upset about their kids auto-playing into offensive content, HBO has already solved for this. They have Sex and the City and The Sopranos on that platform.
Mark the naughty T&J episodes as "TV-MA", and a kid-filtered view won't show them, right? (I guess the question is whether they have this ability per-episode, or only at the series level)
One thing is when The Wire and The Sopranos originally aired it was weekly and if there were any hanging plot threads the viewers would just have to stew in their own theories about what ifs, I remember lots of times wondering about the fate of characters and waiting weeks or years (Drea while the FBI was using her or that Russian in Jersey Pine Barrens? or who was the serial killer? in the projects in The Wire) for resolution and this was prior to when websites covered shows or when I was aware of internet groups/discussions dedicated to the shows, also on Sunday night before the Sopranos was Sex and the City and also airing on HBO was Six Feet Under (I think after The Sopranos when both were live) - so even just consuming one episode a week of these shows was compelling at the time to me for a weeks worth of scheduled TV viewing.
I like to think about what would happen on a planet where the most intelligent species wasn't from a primate, but another animal. Can you imagine the societal nuances that a planet of human-level-intelligent crows? What kind of sitcoms they'd have? I mean most tv revolves around sex.. so having eggs and nests would change all their social taboos. How different would "Sex and the City" be if it was crows? So crazy.
Sopranos, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Six Feet Under, Sex And the City and The Wire are currently "free" in Amazon Prime.
At some point those licenses will expire but this illustrates the "innovator's dilemma" as applied to HBO.
They have a good business of selling cable subscriptions for new stuff, licensing their past shows to Amazon, Hulu and other willing buyers and selling on-demand access via Apple, Amazon etc.
Now they need to compete with Netlifx, which has a large catalog of licensed, popular shows from all over and their own exclusive content.
To compete with that HBO would have to drop revenue from licensing (there's less reasons to pay for HBO if I can get a lot of their good stuff elsewhere)
Their cable subscriptions are probably going to decline no matter what. Cable subscriber count is on a steady, 6 year decline (http://www.businessinsider.com/cable-tv-subscriber-losses-q2-chart-2017-6) despite being propped by internet + cable bundles.
That decline is accelerating i.e. every year more people are cancelling cable as a percentage. If that continues, it'll be a bloodbath. If the decline stops accelerating, it'll still be bloodbath, just later. I don't see a scenario in which cable starts growing again.
Netlifx model is easy to explain but almost impossible to replicate.
The model is: get so many subscribers from all over the world paying you relatively small amount that you'll be able to outspend any other company in quantity of TV/movie exclusive content, thus making it even more likely to get new subscribers.
This is "rich get richer" model and Netflix is already the richest.
People will be willing to buy 2-3 such subscriptions so that's how many winning slots there are.
So HBO better fight hard for that 2nd or 3rd position, but unfortunately just like BlockBuster or Borders had a good business until they didn't, HBO might not do enough to compete.
> If we didn't do that, we'd be completely inundated with American shows flogged off on the cheap
Absolutely. I deleted it from my post, but I was going to mention that on non-primary Australian TV stations that don't have the same content restrictions, we get 2 hours of non-stop Big Bang Theory reruns, or endless repeats of Frasier, Sex And The City, Charmed & Becker.
> What kind of tv show do you consider 'culturally significant'?
Glitch is my favorite recent Australian TV show, started on ABC but apparently Season 2 has been sold as a Netflix exclusive. Back in the 90s it would have been shows like Seachange, Frontline, Kath & Kim. Maybe Offspring & Packed To The Rafters are recent equivalents.
(Outside Australia, I'd think of shows like The Bridge, Springfloden, The Killing & Occupied, that have exported Scandinavian culture onto Australian TV.)
Yes, but for tech-illiterate millennials. Usenet has to be wrapped in various interfaces to make it usable/searchable, and usually shitty VPNs are hawked as add-on to help you avoid your ISP sending you nastygrams for downloading all of Sex and the City or whatever Marvel superhero movie is the current rage.
The portion I found most interesting, and best illustrates their point:
"Here are a few stats I collected early Thursday for the new “Ghostbusters” movie: IMDb average user rating: 4.1 out of 10, of 12,921 reviewers IMDb average user rating among men: 3.6 out of 10, of 7,547 reviewers IMDb average user rating among women: 7.7 out of 10, of 1,564 reviewers The movie isn’t even out in theaters as I’m writing this, but over 12,000 people have made their judgment. Male reviewers outnumber female reviewers nearly 5 to 1 and rate “Ghostbusters” 4 points lower, on average."
And from its related article:
"“Sex and the City” has seven Emmys and a suite of Golden Globes and Screen Actors Guild awards... Any reasonable person should concede that “Sex and the City” was an above-average television program ... “Sex and the City” has an overall rating of 7.0 ... the average score ... is 7.3. So why did a show roundly considered seminal in the now ubiquitous genre of driven-New York-women-make-a-go-of-it programming score so low? Yeah, it’s men. Nearly 60 percent of the people who rated “Sex and the City” ... are women, and looking only at those scores, the show has an 8.1 ... Male users, though, who made up just over 40 percent of “Sex and the City” raters, assigned it, on average, a 5.8 rating."
We like to think of these aggregated ratings, as some objective measure of crowd-sourced wisdom. But in reality, it's just an aggregation of thousands of people's personal preferences and biases.
If you're someone whose tastes line up with the average critic/online-commenter, the aggregated ratings will sound pretty accurate to you. If you're someone who differs from the average critic/online-commenter, you'll be left wondering why all your favorite shows are rated so poorly.
There's probably a moral in here somewhere regarding top-rated posts/comments on HN.
“Cheers,” which ran for 11 seasons on NBC, starting in 1982, was the first great hangout show: neutralizing the depiction of class and removing the pressures of work. Life is hard enough, “Cheers” said; let’s just make TV. Ever since, television started taking it easier on us. Bill Clinton was in the White House, and the economy had improved. On “Seinfeld,” “Living Single,” “Friends,” “Ellen,” “It’s Like, You Know,” “Sex and the City,” “Girlfriends” and, much later, “Happy Endings” and “New Girl,” the commingling, childless men and women might have had jobs, but almost none had consequential careers. How many jobs did Elaine and George have on “Seinfeld”? And in how many fields? And Kramer — how was he paying to live across the hall from Jerry? Hangout shows placed friendship above family, obviating the typical economic ecosystem. Belonging to a family of friends probably means you only have to support yourself.
TV became — and still is — a medium struggling to understand “average,” “ordinary,” “normal.”
Why would you go into any of these shows expecting anything resembling reality. They are all clearly entertainment in the form of light drama and inconsequential, whitewashed sexual tension. To expect anything else is to set yourself up for failure.
Deeper shows exist - The Wire, Breaking Bad, House of Cards - but headlining TV shows are not created to address issues anymore. The shows reflect the main demographics of TV watchers, because that's what keeps them watching, and that's what generates ad revenue. So I'm not too concerned with the state of TV - it's an echo chamber for older, more conservative folk.
> Asking them five times is almost certainly harassment.
Yet this behavior is romanticised is popular culture, and has been from the dawn of time up to and including the present: Oddyseus and Helen of Troy, Shakespeare's "The taming of the shrew", tons of Fred Astaire movies, as well as modern movies like "Ghost", "Life is beautiful", "Chasing Amy", TV shows like "Sex and the city"... I could go on. Lucikly I don't need to, since TVtropes has a site dedicated to this character (the "dogged nice guy"). And note that many of these are targeted at, and very popular with, women (who are usually at the receiving end of the initially-unwarranted attention). Apparently this behaviour can walk a thin line between illegal and very very romantic.
Interesting that the AG's report is titled AirBnB in the City, likely a reference to the classic NYC tv show Sex and the City[1].
Interesting, in that many people incorrectly call that program Sex IN the City, which the producers object to. They point out that the AND is deliberate - the City of New York is an integral character in the story, not just a location where the story (and sex) occurs.
In this dispute, the government is making a similar gambit - arguing that they need to be part of the conversation, via regulation and enforcement etc, not just the location in which the lettings take place.
In other words, the report title seems to mis-quote the name of the TV show. And in doing so it missed the opportunity to position the State more strongly as a central actor in this drama.
[1] And lest anyone observe the title may be a coincidence, note that Eric Schneiderman is the AG of New York State, not just the city.
Lena Chen and Kathy Sierra shouldn't be mentioned in the same article.
Kathy Sierra was attacked for being female. She did nothing that would cause people to attack her, except for being a successful woman. It was disgusting, unprovoked, and utterly wrong.
Lena Chen didn't deserve what happened to her, but she courted the attention in a way that a mature and psychologically sound woman wouldn't. She ran a blog called Sex and the Ivy. I'm sorry, but if you write a blog whose title says, "I'm in the most privileged 2% of the population, I have lots of sex", you're putting a target on yourself. Maybe the world shouldn't be that way, but it is. There are reasons why adults keep their sex lives private (and non-adults, regardless of chronological age, shouldn't be having sex).
I don't think she deserves "slut-shaming" at this point, and the men involved in the revenge porn clearly belong in jail. Anyway, she's been in a long-term relationship (with Hamm) for years, and she's clearly trying to better herself and recover from the mess she made of her college years (and the additional mess others worked to make of her life). And the last thing a person with an obvious biological mental illness needs is for a bunch of cowardly, anonymous, asswipes on the Internet to make it worse by tearing her down.
Where the anger rightfully belongs is on a culture, not on specific people or a gender. The Sex and the City fake feminism (it's actually one of the least feminist TV shows out there) is horrifying, but people like Chen should be left alone to work out their problems in as much peace as they can have.
This is a strange topic because I know exactly where that male anger comes from. The culture of casual sex (in high schools, colleges, and some professional circles) has broken down respect between the genders. It leads naturally to pre-monogamous, primitive, dysgenic, and in practice anti-feminist social patterns and has divided men between an "alpha" contingent who objectify and degrade women, and an "omega" contingent (cyberstalkers, doxxers) who hate them. It's a hideous culture based on social status and acquisitiveness ("Game") and it's left a large number of people (men and women both) unable to form mature relationships.
Most male misogynists are in what I would call the Misogyny Loop. (There's probably a Misandry Loop for heterosexual women.) Because they have negative and false beliefs about women (i.e. "all women are whores who fall for Game") they end up meeting and dating only damaged women, and the sampling confirms their incorrect (and, from our perspective, socially unacceptable) beliefs.
The real enemy, though, is a specific culture created by the worst of men and the worst of women. Sex and the City feminism is based on lowering moral standards for women (i.e. women should be able to behave like the worst 5% of men without consequence) when the real goal should be to raise moral standards for men.
I want to make it clear that I have no sympathy whatsoever for the 1% of men who engage in cyberstalking and doxxing. I do feel slightly bad for the 39% who have been led astray into casual misogyny by a fucked-up and perverted culture. (But I feel much worse for non-participating, innocent women like Kathy Sierra.)
There was a TV show called Sex and the City, and that referred to New York.
I'd say either NY or London is fine for an international audience.
SF, not so much - and I hate, hate, hate how that reference shows the promise of the internet as a world without locality has been lost and turned into California, with the rest of the world as an afterthought.
(Australian here, for reference)
>Right. You're the center of the universe
No; but you are at the center of a strawman.
Didn't the fact that I already wrote that "Twilight is targeted at teenage girls" stop you from writing all those dreadful "counter-examples" (as if I believed that the fictual setting of a show automatically and necesarrily determines the target audience?)
If I followed the strawman logic you accuse me of having, I'd have said "Twilight is targeted at vampires and girls having affairs with them". I did not.
As for your rude question, no, I'm just at the center of a big enough and profitable demographic -- geeks, semi-geeks, etc that have come out of the woodwork ever since the mid-nineties/early oughts, and for which tons of media content is produced, from J. Abraham's and Josh Whedon's stuff, to the nth comic book movie and down to Kevin Smith's Comic Book Men TV series.
The "counter-examples" that you provide, are workplaces and professions, that have served as generic backdrops for drama for ages. They are not about a specific demographic, and their content and references are not targeted at them. On a medical drama, for example, the content is all about relationships, tension, love affairs, etc, not the practice of medicine. They characters might as well be lawyers and the show would still work, whereas in BBT the content is all about the geek references, and nothing is generic and universal.
You even seem unaware of the fact that shows can be targeted a specific demographic, like, say, Friends created for 20-somethings, or Sex and The City created for 30+ women.
Why does it feel like the only knowledge that men on HN have with women comes from watching one episode of Sex and the City 10 years ago?
Two things:
Scale -- HBO is significantly larger when it comes to production capacity. HBO can also have far more shows in production at one time. That scale is partially a product of capital, but also one of point number 2:
Experience -- This one can't be underestimated. HBO first started toying around with original content and series in the early 1990s but it wasn't until Larry Sanders that the show really started to resonate beyond the periphery. Even then, the established TV world didn't start to pay serious attention to HBO until the late 1990s, when you had a swath of hits become bonafide cultural phenomenons (Sex and the City and The Sopranos were hits of a massive global scale beyond anything that cable, let alone premium cable, had seen up to that point).
Netflix has had to start from ground zero. They are essentially right now where HBO was in 1997, when HBO started to shift from acquiring content to paying for original content (Larry Sanders) to making the content in-house (Oz).
Now, granted the current world moves faster -- and Netflix is already potentially approaching the 1997 spot in just two and a half years with this strategy -- BUT content is also now more expensive (The Sopranos and Sex and the City were not $100m shows for a total of 26 episodes like House of Cards is), competition is fiercer than ever and the overall economics of television are not as advantageous as they once were.
I would also say that a third advantage is cable. Yes, cable is an advantage. Why? Because cable often serves as free (or nearly free) advertisements for HBO shows and the bundling of HBO for 3 months free or half-off or whatever is a huge driver in subscribers. Now, Netflix can replicate this, but they'll need to do it at a price and obviously they'll need to assess if giving the cable companies 30% of their monthly revenue is worth the advantages of being bundled.
None of this is insurmountable, but just as starting a movie studio from scratch is hard -- pivoting from a pure distributor into an original content creator/distributor is hard too.
The article you linked merely rejects the potential of pop culture to be soft power, and it does so out of hand. Yes, once it rejects the premise, it finds the premise holds no power.
The whole point of soft power isn't to take on cultural change head on. The meaning of subvert isn't to force change. It's to effect a gradual change, which will be seen over the course of a couple of generations.
Hollywood has immense cultural power over western nations; it can, and definitely has, changed attitudes on a number of topics over just a few generations.
The OP makes some good points that current western media depicts situations too far from the current core islamic nations to carry much weight. The world depicted has to be recognizable, and I'm sure Sex And The City seems completely alien to Karachi (hell, it's still semi-alien to Des Moines). So Hollywood isn't going to carry a lot of weight there.
But the world of Bollywood films are not wholly alien to Pakistan. It doesn't matter if they consciously resist the messages because India is a Hindu nation. That's the whole point of soft power. It works anyway.
Think about this question- did the Mullahs and Imams in faraway lands approve Pakistan opening up to Indian film imports?
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Also, there was something about articles related to social stuff / basic rights, but I can't see it anymore (weird).
So yeah, maybe it is because I used to watch Friends, Desperate Housewives and Sex and the City :D
I know, I know, especially that last one; I got in the habit because of my wife and for some weird reason, I began liking that show.
As a single hetero male I have never seen a single episode of Sex and the City, but I can speak wonders on what it has done for the single man in NYC (and the world for that matter). Thank you SJP...I say the former (better).
I recommend watching Sex and the City, you would quickly find that it's not responsible for those things. Sorry.
And if it happens on television it clearly is indicative of real life?
"Friends" also happened on TV, in New York, and i'd say it's got a decidedly different view of the world and relationships (and it was certainly at least as popular as Sex and the City, if not more so).
And the problem is not whether it's intrinsic or learned behavior. You are ascribing things that are questionably true in the extreme to people who you do not know, and can not know the disposition of.
Pop culture certainly has some influence on the real world, but i'm afraid you are either very shallow, or very naive if you're buying your world view from a television show (or in opposition to it).
==============================
Your concession that men could be equally unfit is rather hollow in the context of what you've said, particularly given the things you cite. Sex and the City in particular is a show with an entirely female main cast, and the show is about their lives. :p So i'm not all that mollified to be frank.
It's not true that killed stories can't be seen by anyone except the submitter. They can be seen by everyone else who has showdead turned on.
You can easily check whether a site is banned by submitting something from it and seeing if it gets killed immediately. I.e. if it's visible on the new page to someone who's not logged in. (You may have to wait a minute because the new page is cached.) Here is the complete list:
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