Hacker Cinema
Shall We Dance?
Shall we ダンス?
1996 · Film · 136 min
Directed by Masayuki Suō
A bored accountant spots a beautiful woman in the window of a ballroom dance studio. He secretly starts taking dancing lessons to be near her, and then over time discovers how much he loves dancing. His wife, meanwhile, has hired a private detective to find out why he has started coming home late smelling of perfume.
2 positive1 neutralfrom 3 commenters
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4 comments on Hacker News
Congrats to all the people who downvoted me for an apparently unpopular opinion. It's pretty bizarre to me that anyone would be surprised by this though. Look at what Hollywood does these days: remakes and sequals. Nearly ever "original" movie you think Hollywood made was actually taken from foreign films (e.g. "Shall we dance" was copied from "Shall we Dansu". Hollywood is now copying "Old Boy" and the lead actor for the original is upset about the behavior).
Anyway, for those who aren't aware of how Hollywood behaves:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13050005/ns/business-cnbc_tv/t/hollywoods-new-piracy-problem-stolen-scripts/#.Tx6LubKVjJM
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/15641336/ns/today-entertainment/t/million-dollar-ideas-often-stolen-hollywood/
http://artherworldblog.wordpress.com/2011/11/09/the-u-s-supreme-court-denies-cert-to-hollywood%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9Cstolen-scripts%E2%80%9D-case/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buchwald_v._Paramount
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-342111-matrix-ripped-off-the-third-eye.html
A bit OT, but the original, Japanese version of the movie "Shall We Dance" is very enjoyable, and maybe even speaks to the "dance" responses in this thread, a bit.
Thank you for your well-thought out response. All of what you've said jives with the advice I've been given. To immerse yourself is to learn.
> If you are simply aiming for some eventual goal, and view the process of getting there as a necessary misery, you are setting yourself up for failure.
I don't think I'm enjoying the process. I think the solution is to start going to Spanish Language meetups (break out of my one-on-one private tutoring) and maybe just walk around the Hispanic areas in my city and make smalltalk). Or maybe the solution is there is no solution - take advantage of serendipity, go with the 'unexpected opportunities' as you say..
> studies have elucidated that a lot of language acquisition occurs before/below the level of words and semantics
"Impossible, because if you move somewhere foreign, you're going to learn the language unconsciously within 6 months. People who have only lived in the US don't know this. It almost takes no effort. The human brain is good at this sort of thing." from http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=500969
One of my tutors recommended I buy the Spanish language audiobook and the book and follow-along - much like I see my friend's kids do (and as I did when I was younger - 'when Tinker Bell rings the bell, turn the page'). I could probably even listen to it while sleeping. What's stopping me? Motivation. Why do I want to learn? Do I really want to go through the pain curve of becoming competent?
I'm also tempted to buy the Spanish language voice from http://www.acapela-group.com/text-to-speech-interactive-demo.html and put in in the background and have it read Spanish newspaper articles to me. What's stopping me? Probably the fact that listening to Spanish news now is very draining energy wise - trying too hard perhaps?
Total immersion is the best way to learn. In fact, I now think that toddlers learning language is the best possible total immersion program (e.g. their parents are 1) emotionally invested - encourage anything that represents progress with genuine admiration and smiles - e.g. 'Sigh' for 'Sky' is close enough, to begin - and 2) have the requisite patience and 3) the toddler wants to control/understand his environment [e.g. terrible twos] - so it is his/her incentive to improve quickly - as a side note, maybe that is why 'No' becomes a very common word for parents to utter..).
> the Japanese film "Shall We Dance" may illustrate this
Years ago, I saw the original. Loved it. A favorite, even though I've never watched it again. So much better than the remake (even though I've never seen the remake - I know it can't be as good). In retrospect, I think it may have inspired me.
An interesting comic about "Learning" vs "Knowing" (via another HN comment) http://jackiesfridge.comicgenesis.com/d/20001227.html I love listening to Salsa music, even before I could pick up the beat and the words - which I'm still struggling to decipher.
Beloit College's Summer Intensive Language School (not for beginners?)
http://www.summerlanguages.com/index.php
For the Spanish, specifically: When (years ago) learning German and French, I found some popular music that I rather liked and listened to it a lot. This gave me a better feel for listening to the language. Since I enjoyed the music (and what I could understand of the lyrics, with added bursts of excitement when I figured out something new about them), this practice was itself a pleasure and it was not difficult to engage in. (It helped that I had friends who could provide a bit of context regarding the music as well as some recommendations.)
More recently, studies have elucidated that a lot of language acquisition occurs before/below the level of words and semantics. Infants first acquire language sound recognition and reproduction, for example. Also, different languages use/emphasis somewhat different frequencies in their speech. Extended listening to the language helps train the brain to focus on / stop filtering out those frequencies.
More generally, I find that you have to enjoy the process of learning. If you are simply aiming for some eventual goal, and view the process of getting there as a necessary misery, you are setting yourself up for failure.
Perhaps this is a bit sideways, but in some ways the Japanese film "Shall We Dance" may illustrate this. It's a wonderful film about a salaryman who falls sideways into ballroom dancing. A semi-fantasy about meeting an enigmatic woman in the window of a dance studio leads to an unexpected but personally enriching and empowering love of dance and the community it fosters.
(Be sure to watch the original Japanese version. The U.S. remake is a commercial gimmick that does disservice to the original film.)
I think we can (better) learn new things when we can enjoy them. If we think we have to learn them (completely) before we can enjoy them, that is sort of putting the cart before the horse. Of course, this is a generalization, and some things are difficult particularly at the start. But often there is still pleasure in there somewhere, long before one achieves mastery.
P.S. I know my more general "insight" here is hardly revelatory. But I find it a trap I have a tendency to keep repeating, myself, looking at the goal while neglecting making sure I'm enjoying the process. And if I'm enjoying the process, I tend to be more open to unexpected opportunities, e.g. the person who is happy to let me exercise my fledgling French even though they are fluent in English.