The Conversation
1974 · Film · 115 min
Directed by Francis Ford Coppola
A paranoid, secretive surveillance expert has a crisis of conscience when he suspects that the couple he is spying on will be murdered.
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62 comments on Hacker News
I just finished re-watching EotS — really advanced tech portrayal for a late-90s film.
Quote (from movie): "just think, all this technology is already twenty years old..."
Much better than The Conversation, but the links were uncanny (including Hackman's line: "yeah this has been my office where I do things for a long time*" — and it's the same set[up]).
EotS honestly has the best death finale scene I've ever seen (not being hyperbolic, the best). Don't want to spoil it }:D ------>
[headsmack] gotcha, of course...
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Just finished The Conversation (Godfather II rightly won best film); although it features a neat plot twist, I cannot imagine this film being re-watchable.
Gene Hackman definitely acts his paranoid heart out, but his relationships with other characters are stuffy/forced. Too much dead air whenever he gets frustrated, almost as if there wasn't time to reshoot any scenes.
The cinematography/editing is fine, but the sound quality is terrible (presume it only won best soundtrack due to new sound warping/garbling techniques — to a modern listener, it's also sort of a cheap schtick). Particularly with female speakers, subtitles are necessary; but then certain dramatic points are wayyyy too loud.
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Thanks again for the rec — actually makes me less paranoid about the modern world... just gonna play some sax uncaringly =P
You would like the film The Conversation (1974).
The Conversation came out in 1974, 52 years ago. By any reasonable metric, the statute of limitations on spoilers has long ago elapsed. If we can't even mention that Rosebud is a sled without some sort of spoiler banner, I think we're letting our preciousness about spoilers get in the way of actually discussing film.
The pacing is irrelevant in this context. As a student the main point of watching these movies is not entertainment.
Although I will say it's pretty amazing that someone that supposedly has an interest in film would not be able to watch The Conversation or an even slower film like 2001.
Why did the author feel the need to throw in a spoiler for the end of The Conversation in the last paragraph of the article? That seems contradictory to the point of everything else she wrote and disrespectful to both the audience and the film.
I have to disgree here regarding the film's merit. There are a few quite interesting (and unique) films in that genre from the 70s that are little known to today's audiances. Most came out around Watergate ~'74 (so were topical in those days) but then have been kind of memory holed.
The Kremlin Letter, 1970 (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0065950/) - I recall someone saying this film really shows the ugly underbelly of intelligence services. This is an interesting film but it is very dark and somewhat disturbing. This one predates Watergate - it is a Cold War spy flick and makes Smiley's People look warm and cuddly ..
The Conversation, 1974 (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071360/) - Gene Hackman's character resurfaces a couple decades later in Enemy of the State (1998).
The Parallax View, 1974 (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071970/)
The Tamarind Seed, 1974 (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072253/) - A subtle movie that superficially seems like a romance.
So that's from the top of my head. All are eminently watchable films and some possibly classic canon contenders.
Unfortunately I feel that while it's very well shot and paced, the gendered interplay from RR and his co-star feels a little iffy in the modern day - particularly since the romantic sub-plot requires so much suspension of disbelief. So much so that the main characters in the Elmore Leonard spy-comedy "Out of Sight" ridicule it.
Apparently, as per Reddit, the director kept wanting her to look more scared in her initial scenes; explaining the horror of being kidnapped and imprisoned in her own home by a strange man. She kept pleading "But it's Robert Redford"!
If you like the espionage and unique feel of films of that era though, you can't do much better than Francis Ford Coppola's 'The Conversation', starring a wonderfully morose Gene Hackman. A very worthy Palme D'Or winner in '74.
Fred Zinnemann's 'The Day of the Jackal' in '73 is also a high-point for espionage-thrillers of the decade.
‘The Lives of Others’ is an outstanding film. However, it is a reappraisal of East German history and was made seven years after the collapse (the director grew up in West Germany and Western Europe).
US-America has looked at the subject of surveillance of its own population and its own (possible) collapse many times and often in a timely manner.
"The Conversation": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Conversation
"Enemy of the State": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_of_the_State_(film)
"The Siege": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Siege
"In the Heat of the Night": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Heat_of_the_Night_(film)
"Eagle Eye": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_Eye
If you ask publicly, ‘What if I've seen XYZ?’ then it's actually already too late.
The 4k remaster of the conversation that came out in theatres was so good. I hadn’t seen it before and I was blown away by the end. Super recommend people go to the cinema these days they are doing lots of 4k remasters of classics like this.
+1 for The Conversation, an underated, gripping, and creepy movie that is underrated indeed and that I came to watch or even know about only last year (featuring a really young Harrison Ford btw). It's ahead of its time, yet also vaguely reminiscent of 1960's avantgarde movies like Blow Up. I also loved Hackmann's comedy performances, like in French Connection II and in The Birdcage. RIP
Sometimes I randomly think of a famous person and ask myself "Are they still alive?". I remember doing it for Burt Bacharach and Dick Van Dyke (who's still alive!). This happened last month with Gene Hackman. I had just rewatched "The Conversation" and "The Firm" (so maybe not so random). So I googled him, and apparently he'd basically quit acting 20 years ago.
It was weird to see recent pictures of him. I guess our memory of a retired actor is often skewed since we constantly see them at a younger age in their movies, but rarely (or never) in a recent context. And considering his impact in cinema history, it didn't feel like he'd left the industry at all.
I hope he went away without pain. R.I.P.
"The Conversation" is a masterpiece of the golden age of 70s film. "The French Connection" would be on my list too, for similar reasons. Popeye Doyle is a classic 70s protagonist.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned "The Birdcage" yet. Fantastic ensemble cast, and Hackman plays his part to perfection.
"Heist" and "Royal Tenenbaums" would finish out my list.
I really love Guy Ritchie's tip of the hat in The Gentlemen from Hugh Grant's character where when talking about watching a conversation through a telephoto lens he says, "But I filmed it, had it lip-read, translated, and transcribed. Rather like the classic 1974 film The Conversation starring Gene Hackman and John Cazale. You know, Coppola slipped that one out between the Godfathers. It wasn't really for me. It's a bit boring to be honest...."
I don't know why but that makes me laugh every time. (And I agree w/ The Conversation being underrated)
The Conversation is probably my favorite as well, but I always enjoyed Enemy of the State (1998) a lot. It has the same paranoid vibes as some of his work in the 70s, but with the subtlety replaced with sensational action. He was great in that film as a retired super spook, and his chemistry with Will Smith really elevated it.
Drop your favourite Hackman movies!
Heres mine:
--= The Conversation (1979) =--
"Schizo surveillance guy gets a contract that starts to derail things" is the basic premise, but there is more going on - "it has layers".
Francis Ford Coppola filmed this in between Godfather I & II. I believe it is less famous only because the target audience is smaller, not due to its quality.
The editing is perfect, the pacing just right and the acting mostly top notch. Gene Hackman absolutely nails it.
I found the whole thing to be mesmerising and gripping until the very end. Underrated masterpiece.
May he rest in peace.
> I should mention that I've seen fairly convincing cross-sectional evidence that homelessness is more related to the housing market than mental illness
This is absolutely the right diagnosis. For instance, SROs used to be very affordable.[1] Placing someone into housing was well within the means of local governments and non-profits.
In Coppola's 1974 movie The Conversation, a large portion of the titular dialogue is about a homeless person Williams' character spots while walking around a crowded Union Square. That's how much homelessness stood out back then.
[1] https://ccsroc.net/s-r-o-hotels-in-san-francisco/
One of the 1st adult films I enjoyed: One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest. Beautiful pacing, acting, multi-layered.
The Conversation is well worth watching for someone interested in surveillance and paranoia.
Reminds me of the film "The Conversation". Check it out if you get a chance.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071360/
But this isn’t true at all. Look at a movie like The Conversation. Or Mon Oncle. Or Pulp Fiction. The lighting when intended to look natural very much does, although the latter also makes intentional use of stylized lighting (such as the taxi ride scene).
Here in Poland used by political party with public funding to strategically spy on and sabotage opposition party (bypassing actual real intelligence agencies).
What strikes me is how Pegasus wasn’t really used by sophisticated intelligence agencies but as a product by actors adjacent to or below that level of access.
All of this in my mind harkens back to that fantastic Coppola film „The Conversation”. It is inevitable that scummy companies and specialists will always emerge with a well priced product or tool for getting some shitty job done.
Digression:
If you like "Enemy of the State," you absolutely must watch "The Conversation"[1] if you haven't already. You may decide, as many have before you, that it exists in the same universe as "Enemy of the State," and that Gene Hackman's character in "Enemy of the State" is an older, even more cynical Harry Caul from "The Conversation."
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Conversation
What a great article! I'll need a couple rereadings to understand it better, but I did appreciate the section about spectacle and about how cinema is tied to war. Another film that exemplifies that line of thought is Beau Travail. The characters prepare for war in a ritualistic frenzy, throwing themselves into each other in lavish choreography, dancing in the water and in the club. Michel Subor says it well when he notes that a good soldier is taught elegance in and under their uniforms. And the ending, well let's just say the ending demonstrates this spectacle well.
I would be remiss if I didn't mention though the crucial failure of Apocalypse Now, which is the crucial failure of many American war films. It reduces the enemy to this faceless, incoherent savage. The Vietnamese are never given a say in this story. The Sympathizer by Viet Thanh Nguyen goes over this point. Yes, yes, Coppola is a fantastic director (The Conversation is an especially good masterpiece), but he nonetheless cannot seem to stray away from the genre of American soldiers feeling guilty about murdering savages. Contrast this to a war film like La Grande Illusion, where Renoir explicitly notes that the French nobility have more in common with the German nobility, their enemies, than with the French common folk, their comrades. But of course, the German nobility are the German nobility, and not the "savages" of Vietnam.
Ah, yeah, SG-1 is a good example. The 100 is another (post-apocalyptic earth). And Battlestar Galatica.
In retrospect I realized I grew up with a few major styles, including "shot in a back lot in LA" (Back to the Future), "shot on a ranch outside LA" (Little House on the Prairie), "movie set in city actually shot in city by director who loved the city" (the Conversation), and "shot at Elmstree" (Star Wars interiors).
Ultimately I want to watch a movie where I can't tell what forest it was shot it, especially if it's off-planet.
Assuming everyone here is familiar with the movie "The Conversation".
> One of the few valid criticisms (not to gush, but I’m a fan to be sure) of the original is that Vicious is a thinly written villain.
This I don't agree with, not that Vicious is or isn't thinly written, but that it is valuable or an improvement that he is "fleshed out". Spike's narrative in the source is built on his memories and recollection of people, not who they are. The lack of dimensionality has a purpose. Jet has a similar issue and both of them are forced to confront the gap between their recollection of people and what those people actually thought/felt, and that's big because both of them have staked major parts of their personhood on the ghost of their nostalgia and self-centered sense of tragedy. Finding out the world is other people doing other things was the point and you can't recover the impact by removing the entire mystery.
As I said elsewhere, Bebop is more related to 70s New Hollywood than the American adaptation is, Coppola's The Conversation has a similar bent where someone is haunted by their past but misinterprets the present and future on behalf of their own guilt only to discover reality had nothing to do with a POV that was always their own misperception. If you actually followed all the side characters around the movie would be pointless.
Another early one, Francis Ford Coppola's The Conversation fits the bill.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071360
Such a great film. I wonder if the recent TV adaptation was any good. Other fun films that feel like they're in the same vein (or the same universe!):
"Sneakers"
"The Conversation"
"Enemy of the State"
As an actor, John Cazale. Made 5 movies in his life. All of them nominated for best picture (with three winning.)
The Godfather
The Conversation
The Godfather II
Dog Day Afternoon
The Deer Hunter
If you want a “spiritual predecessor”, go watch “The Conversation”. Amazing film.
I would also recommend “The Conversation” (1974). Not because the vision of surveillance is up to date, but because it’s a much better movie and (sort of) prequel to “Enemy of the State”.
ASL in a faraday cage :)
More realistically, a bathroom shower; the water plus the echoes from the tile/glass in typical bathrooms are better white noise than any digital solution. Two pots boiling at different heats also works and you potentially get the benefit of nutritious meal. Many kitchens also have noisy extractor fans conveniently located right above the stove!
Working in film, you want sound to be realistic but viewers have to be able to link it to something on the screen. Those loud hums from store/restaurant refrigerators used to be the bane of my life because while they were often the authentic natural sounds of the environment they're rarely visible unless you are specifically shooting a scene in a meat locker or next to an airport.
If I was shooting a remake of The Conversation for the digital age and my secretive chatters weren't using high tech wizardry, I'd give them two am radios tuned to bible or foreign language channels. 3 overlapping sound sources recorded at a single point (without the direction resolution our ears provide) are possible to disentangle, but it's a ton of work. Speech is harder to filter than music.
If you're in real fear of aggressive surveillance but must communicate, pick the noisiest room (usually the kitchen), sit on the floor or under a table, and hold your conversation inside a large cardboard box with some thick blankets over the top. I would sometimes use this when I needed to record in a noisy environment where it wasn't practical to run wires.
Francis Ford Coppola said that “The Conversation” was his favourite Francis Ford Coppola movie.
Watching “Enemy of the State,” it is quite clear that Hackman’s character is a nod at The Conversation’s Harry Caul. He plays an ex-spook who is extremely paranoid about surveillance, which is the exact state Caul gets into at the end of The Conversation!
Hackman was also in another movie about spying and paranoia - The Conversation. Great movie. I know it’s not about nation states spying but wanted to add that here
The Conversation is 44 years old, also a great movie, and while the surveillance is much more primitive, it’s no less scary.
It has "Enemy of the State", its spiritual sequel (with Gene Hackman playing an almost identical character). But I agree, The Conversation should be on there, too; I have to admit it's a better movie, even though I love Will Smith.
I'd love to see earlier movies on this list, ie The Conversation (1974) [1]
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Conversation
Needs "The Conversation". A near perfect movie about surveillance, that doesn't feature a single computer.
I'd add The Conversation:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071360/
Best surveillance film ever http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0071360/
Back when I was a kid, Enemy of the State was not a documentary.
No, but The Conversation might have been.
If you haven't seen it The Conversation is a brilliant film for a hacker. And Pi
I recommend you watch Coppola's The Conversation as well, which is what originally inspired EotS. It's far more atmospheric and psychologically tense.
and then what happens when you do? Reminds me very much of the classic 1974 film "The Conversation":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_LJ5ICMbP4
[EDIT: And this interesting analysis as it pertains to the modern world in light of the Snowdon revelations]
http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/04/why-em-the-conversation-em-should-be-required-viewing-at-the-nsa/360213/
I remember reading that. At the time my absolute favorite novel. Its beautiful. He's a great great writer. The short stories. "A Certain Lucas"; "Around the day in 80 worlds" but nothing quite like Hopscotch.
Jumping to film - I always thought that a lecture/ essay on Blowup Blowout and ) a bit of a stretch) The Conversation
all descended from Cortazar's short story would make a great study.
It's based on The Conversation (or vaguely related to it?). I remember being mildly entertained when Gene Hackman turned up partway through the movie.
I also recommend watching Coppola's 1974 film The Conversation, which was a heavy influence for Enemy of the State: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071360/
The technology presented is obsolete, but the film is far more haunting because it's a deeply psychological experience.
> In 1987 the growing paranoia finally burst out. The trigger was a BBC television series called The Secret Society made by an investigative journalist called Duncan Campbell.
In 6 half-hour films Campbell pulled what had been happening all together - and drew a frightening picture that still haunts the imagination of the liberal left.
Some Americans were already paranoid back in the mid 70's - Francis Ford Coppola's "The Conversation", with that well known and often mis-parsed phrase - "He'd kill us if he got the chance".
And of course, Enemy of the State is a sort of sequel to The Conversation, a (great) movie from the '70s.
The Conversation is just perfect. It's worth a watch for sure. While we're thinking about surveillance themed films, The Lives of Others comes to mind as a strong recommendation:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405094/
OT: John Cazale had the most astonishing career of any actor ever. Six years, five movies, five nominees for Best Picture (The Godfather, The Godfather Part II, The Conversation, Dog Day Afternoon, Deer Hunter), three winners. And then he died. Just a remarkable life.
The Conversation is one of the classics of 70s cinema, really worth a watch. To match today's paranoid times, Tony Scott's spiritual successor film "Enemy of the State" is also worth a watch. It's updated more as a star vehicle / action flick, but it's also pretty good. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_of_the_State_(film)
Obviously, this is being posted because of the NSA and FBI scandals even though it was, originally, more of a response to the Watergate scandal. Even if you're sick of hearing about all of those this is still a fantastic film and well worth watching.
Gene Hackman plays a private consultant who specializes in the surveillance of difficult targets, such as people talking as they walk through a crowd. Technology is handled brilliantly in this film. It's antiquated analogue 70's tech obviously, but it's also both believable and impressive. Hackman's character is layered and complex. He specializes in surveillance but values his own privacy to the point of paranoia. The Conversation makes an incredibly strong statement about the value of privacy and the price of destroying it. Who watches the watchers? Somebody apparently, and the watchers don't like it one bit!
If you're not convinced, read one of Ebert's reviews.
http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/the-conversation-1974
http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-the-conversation-1974
I submitted the Netflix link last week but didn't comment in the discussion...I'll just chime in with this:
* Reportedly Gene Hackman's favorite role of all time
* Young pre-Star-Wars Harrison Ford plays a total asshole in this movie
* Great ending
* One of the 5 John Cazale movies (Fredo in Godfather)
* The movie Coppola had scripted a decade before, but had to wait until Godfather was a success before he could finally film it
* Competed with Godfather 2 for Best Picture (and lost)
* On Netflix Streaming (for U.S. customers) http://dvd.netflix.com/Movie/The-Conversation/60003586?fcld=true
It's a little slow for today's crowd, but really one of the best cinematic portrayals of paranoia and the surveillance state.
Although enjoyable, and a film I'd recommend as a good fun movie, it's not in the same league as The Conversation.
Reading up a little on it beforehand may make you appreciate it more, the movie is really an pivotal moment in the development of sound design as a core aspect of film making. I know the first time I saw it I found it boring as well, but then a second viewing after reading up on it was much more enjoyable.
http://www.philipbrophy.com/projects/mma/Conversation.html
http://cinephilefix.wordpress.com/2009/11/17/the-power-of-sound-and-editing-the-conversation-and-psycho/
Enemy Of The State [1], the Tony Scott Joint, is a sort of follow-on, sort of homage to The Conversation, which is in my opinion the best American movie ever made. It's a worthy double bill.
[1] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120660/
I didn't watch The Lives of Others (will do, thanks for suggestion).
The Conversation's IMDB rating is 8.0, which is why I watched it, and while the movie was not bad, it was boring :)
ex-NSA off-grid Edward(!) `Brill' Lyle, (aka `Harry `The Call' Caul' The Conversation (film) 1972 (~prequel)) in Enemy of the State (film) 1998 (~sequel), teaches us a way to get reins on NSA's wild horses is to bug(1) and wiretap Clapper's and Kieth Alexander's homes. In addition to heroic(martyr?) whistleblowers, the world needs angry and experienced curmudgeon tradecraft operatives:
(1) "...will find them and have the NSA start an investigation. Lyle also deposits $140,000 into _______'s bank account to make it appear that he is taking bribes.
Reminds me of another classic, much earlier..with Gene Hackman.. playing the sax mournfully, after he tore his apartment to shreds looking for a hidden bug.
'The Conversation' 1974 : http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071360/
I know it's only movies and TV but these were still interesting to watch on all things data retention and surveillance state and are related to the topic:
The Listening - 2006 (specifically on Echelon) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427461/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlVK906Xzr8
The Conversation (1974) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Conversation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrhRsZ56b4g
The Lives of Others (2006) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lives_of_Others
Spying on the Home Front (PBS, 2007) http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/homefront/
The Enemy Within (PBS, 2006) http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/enemywithin/
The Wire, Season 1 (HBO, 2002) Brazil (1985) Nineteen Eighty-Four (1984)
The Conversation(1974): http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071360/