Hacker Cinema
Zeitgeist
2007 · Film · short · 25 min
Directed by Navot Papushado
A haunting short film by Navot Papushado, co-director of Rabies and Big Bad Wolves, which explores the persistence of Holocaust memory on the contemporary Israeli psyche. Unsettling and beautifully realized.
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19 comments on Hacker News
Did not have that idea when I read the title. Then again, I accept every view of inflation as just another well-intentioned guess as to what that actually is, since nobody can agree as to why we actually observe it IRL.
For me that applied even to the (second?) Zeitgeist movie on monetary theory, which was a very opinionated or even conspiratory view on the financial system, yet that was the model that actually stuck for me: Due to a single interest rate that was once taken higher than zero, there now is never enough money to pay back all debts. AKA there is no money, it just represents some else's debt.
In fact this site and the idea was promoted heavily in the original release of the Zeitgeist movie by Peter Joseph back in 2007 and 2010. It's too bad really because the first parts of that movie minus the weird psychological intro was actually quite interesting. It was a very divisive and curious set of topics covered that caused different factions to try to debunk each other. They are still at it to this day. You can find pieces of it on youtube but now that it is a well funded movie they keep pulling it. The debates from all the people he angered are still up though. It really upset many religious communities.
I agree but I think it has to do with credibility and authoritative sources that used to be credible within some reason no longer being so.
I remember watching one of those movies like Zeitgeist 15 years ago (but it was about physics) and being enthralled by it and eagerly shared everything I learned with a bunch of people for months.
I eventually learned like 80%+ of that movie was made up BS, purposefully made to look more credible than it actually was.
That ruined the entire thing for me. It wasn't ethical or right to pick and choose pieces from a dishonest source -- The whole thing was thrown out much like not credible witnesses in a court case.
Again, I totally agree with the consequences of this and that it's not a good thing but if you met someone who talked about the flat earth nonstop and then told you about global warming, would you listen with the same openness if they believed the earth was round?
Sound like the Zeitgeist movie.
The Venus Project: Future By Design - By Jacque Fresco. Introduced Jacque Fresco's philosophy, R.I.P., and also the empathy we must have in designing something that is good for the planet and for the future. I highly recommend.
Mike Maloney's "Hidden Secrets of Money" is a beautiful set of YouTube documentaries financed by Mike himself. It educated me and millions out there how money really worked in the real world, and how the Federal Reserve and banking manipulates currency. https://goldsilver.com/hidden-secrets/
The Corporation - When Corporations started to get the same rights and treatment as regular citizens, we have created a monster that have changed our world for the worst.
The Cove and Blackfish. Really sad and made me stay away from Sea World and circuses and places that held animals in captivity for entertainment.
The Fog of War: Eleven Lessons from the Life of Robert S. McNamara - The 11 lessons are worth learning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fog_of_War
Enron: The Smartest Guys In The Room/Inside Job - When corporations are run by sociopaths.
An Inconvenient Truth - Global warming.
Diana Vreeland: The Eye Has to Travel/Bill Cunningham New York - Learned so much about creativity and just being true to your unique self regardless of what the world thinks.
Zeitgeist - Esoteric knowledge.
Yeah but people grew up in different perspectives on media. As a teenager I've seen Bowling for Columbine in the movie theater and also read books from Michael Moore which are highly manipulative already. Still, everybody hyped his work at the time and on first sight this was hard to get. At that time (early 2000s) other revealing documentaries became popular, for instance Zeitgeist. At the time it seemed a bit shallow and repetitive in context of similar productions, but I wouldn't ever have called someone watching this Conspiracy Theorist.
Today the landscape changed totally, those kinds of "documentaries" produced today are created at much greater pace and still reasonable professional quality, probably because both tools and creators got more professional. But what didn't change is, when you watch one of these films, I guess, it still seems reasonable to a degree. Of course they build on something tangible, like how currencies are created, what Fiat money is, the really crazy stuff comes then in subsequent episodes.
IMHO this is like a cult because a whole (social) network of websites is associated to this nowadays. But when stuff is hosted on YouTube etc. their rating system should at least provide an appropriate scam flagging on a community level.
I'm sure your heart is in the right place, and I admire your optimism, but I just don't think what you're suggesting will be a society I'd want to live in.
The thing is, I used to think along similar limes to you. When I was in my 20s I saw the Zeitgeist films and found the ideas behind the resource-based economy to be compelling. A way to meet everyone's needs without relying on money. However, as time went on and I thought more about what living in such a society would be like, I saw that it wasn't the answer I was looking for.
To give you some idea of what changed my mind, I'd suggest we look at variety. As the phrase goes, variety is the spice of life. Centrally planned economies, whether resource-based or otherwise, would see variety as inefficient and attempt to cut down on variety. You gave an example of it earlier when I asked about the PS4 and Xbox One. Whilst it's true we don't "need" variety, it is something we collectively want.
For all its flaws, money gives people the chance to make choices based on what's best for them, with far fewer restrictions on what's possible. These days, I'd much rather see something along the lines of universal basic income than a resource-based economy, though I recognise UBI has its flaws too.
>What's so special about this, honestly?
Most people's experience with Mr. Fresco likely came from the Zeitgeist films, which were sort of a phenomenon and many people's first experience with the "vast, global conspiracy" (right as the world economy imploded in 2008). I count myself as one of those people.
When I was about 14 or 15 my first exposure to different schools of social organisation was Fresco, I found him through the Zeitgeist documentary (which I was foolish enough to believe in conspiracies with). I then looked at the Venus project and various of his videos and interviews on Youtube. He seemed like a great man, and although I think his ideas didn't put much into action, I really admired them. For the past 8 years or so he had passed out of my mind, I barely thought of the Venus Project, and it was surprising and saddening to read this news.
RIP Fresco.
I remember when I watched the Zeitgeist documentaries and had my first contact with this 'resource based" society. Weeks later I had dinner with a friend who was a director in a Spanish consulting firm specialized in the banking sector. I tried to impress him with what I had seen in the documentary. In the end, it was like having an atheist trying to convince the pope about his convictions.
I find it strange that Ayn Rand is not mentioned, she seems to be at the birth of this as well. I still believe strongly in her philosophy, her philosophy is pure but it was corrupted by such things as lobbying.
The ruthlessness is the unethical part, not the free market part. Effort and skill have to be rewarded. But when you add lobbying to the mix, you can be rewarded without effort of skill or you can be punished even while you show effort and have skill but lack a strong relation with those currently in power (the deep state, for lack of a better term, I borrowed it from Zeitgeist (or weltschmerz (a dutch podcast)), a documentary worth watching although I think it goes a bit far near the end of part 2 (addendum).)
What explanation does the Zeitgeist movie give?
Bank loans create money. Principal payments destroy money.
How does this differ from the explanation given in the Zeitgeist movie?
This post doesn't really say anything about why 'Smart People are Particularly Vulnerable to Propaganda'. It alludes to Fox news using brainwashing techniques and theoretically shady use of 'experts' to alter a persons beliefs.
Many 'documentaries' (left and right) use brainwashing techniques with different levels of success. Look at Zeitgeist as an example. They use a process similar to how the Koreans brainwashed American POWs in the late 1950s.
This article doesn't expand on that, and just targets Fox (though a well deserved target I believe, I don't get Fox here in Australia) and right-wing conservatives, who at this point are a fairly easy target I think.
From what you write, I think you might be interested in watching the Zeitgeist movies [1] and read about basic income [2]
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist_(series) [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Income
For folks more in-the-know than me on govt/corp history, does the power struggle between the people and controlling entities (wether it be the govt or the corps as we are seeing more recently) ebb and flow? Is this an ebb in out history where we see the balance of power pouring to the corp side of the scale or is this an unprecedented moment in history where we see control in health care, research, internet, communications, news, newspaper/magazine, popular culture (TV shows, Disney-created properties, modern fads, etc.), food, etc. all primarily dictated by corporations?
I'll do my part to pledge money for this movie because I think it is important to shine as much light as possible into dark corners... the lack of light allows nasty things to grow it seems, but I also (unfortunately) have no expectations that any change will come out of this as a result.
It seems like we have more information about corruptions and injustices now than we ever have in the history of the world; whether it is too overwhelming or "just not bad enough to care", the result of things mostly staying the same and going down the same path seem to continue.
Either things aren't as bad/terrible/horrifying as movies like Lose Change and Zeitgeist make them out to be or we (humans) are extremely difficult to mobilize as a group.
I really don't know how to think about gross imbalances of power. You see it so much it doesn't surprise you any more, but you still hate it, but I'm also very busy so I'm not running out with signs to stand on corners trying to get people to change their minds.
Anyone have more valuable thoughts on this to help put this in perspective? I'd appreciate it.
if we're talking about the murder of thousands of innocent people, investigating about this thing matters all the more.. just because it's not likely, doesn't mean it's impossible.. 'proofs are lacking on both sides' isn't conclusive to rule out that possibility..
saw an interesting documentary about this 9/11 stuff from zeitgeist: 4 videos in youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_E4N5YIycI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECMJ2LBK90Q&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSW1x_h4Kfo&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeSDOb7NcgE&feature=related
After watching the first Zeitgeist movie it seemed like they made assumptions that were either not fully researched or not well formed. Most of the assertions were pretty much half baked or not even true. Looking at the actual movement it seems like they are trying to create some type of utopian society based upon the elimination of personal property and rejecting capitalism. Other than disagreeing with these ideas the system doesn't seem realistically implementable due to the fact that what will probably happen is some type of animal farm situation.
Let me guess, you just watched Zeitgeist Movie? Great flick.