Hacker Cinema
13 Reasons Why
2017 · TV series · 4 seasons
Created by Brian Yorkey, Jay Asher
High school student Clay Jensen lands in the center of a series of heartbreaking mysteries set in motion by a friend's tragic suicide.
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14 comments on Hacker News
https://www.imdb.com/list/ls033928706/
Netflix: 13 Reasons Why: Following concerns from mental health professionals, Netflix edited the first-season finale in 2019 to remove a graphic scene depicting the main character’s suicide. Back to the Future Part II: In May 2020, it was discovered that a scene involving an adult magazine cover was censored in certain regions. Netflix stated they had received an edited foreign version from the studio and later restored the original scene. Bird Box: Following public outcry in 2018, Netflix agreed to remove footage from the 2013 Lac-Mégantic rail disaster used in the film's scenes, as it was deemed insensitive. The Devil Next Door: In 2019, Netflix added extra text to a map in this documentary series after complaints from the Polish Prime Minister regarding the portrayal of Nazi death camps. Patriot Act with Hasan Minhaj: An episode critical of the Saudi Arabian government was removed in Saudi Arabia in 2019 after a government takedown request.
There are claims this is untrue but even if it’s true it’sa non-story and nothing new. Famously there’s Star Wars (as the article mentions) but there are plenty of others.
TV shows and movies have removed episodes from circulation (eg Seinfeld), removed scenes (eg 13 Reasons Why), added scenes (pick any Director’s Cut), enhanced scenes, enhanced or changed audio, etc.
Content as originally published isn’t untouchable. It’s only really a problem when the changes are bad. I mean fans of Star Wars have been clamoring for a release of the original theatrical version for 25+ years in large part because the changes are worse.
Been going on for a while.
r/DataHoarder (of course) post for this news last week - commenters list minute changes they've noticed like reruns being cut for advertisements and copyright: https://old.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/w38e1z/stranger_things_4_creators_reveal_theyve_secretly/
In other Netflix shows:
- 13 Reasons Why: suicide removed,[1] song replaced (edit: coinciding with condemnation of the show by the artist[2])
- Dark: details changed for continuity with later seasons[3]
[1] https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=378736
[2] https://old.reddit.com/r/CSHFans/comments/8tloai/oh_starving_was_removed_from_13_reasons_why/
[3] https://old.reddit.com/r/DarK/comments/ctbsbd/apparently_some_mistakes_have_been_corrected/
(Can't edit) Ah, how did I forget, in this context, about the suicide being censored out of the first season of 13 Reasons Why, years after its release?[1]
That was along with the addition of 1) a disclaimer in the form of the actors talking directly to the viewer before the first episode and 2) an intertitle after every episode reminding of it, again with narration from the actors. 3) Trigger warnings before episodes were also added, but to no surprise at this point. What I certainly haven't seen before is such mutilation of a work as accompanying it with material so expressly immersion-breaking!
A song in the soundtrack was also replaced for reasons unknown, but I suppose that falls more into the general topic of silent alterations to published media that online consumption facilitates, an entire discussion to be had on its own.
[1] https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=378736
First of all, Hollywood does occasionally sanitize films and TV shows. For example, the suicide scene was removed from "13 Reasons Why" after concerns from mental health experts that it might inspire copycats [1].
But even ignoring that, I think most people have a good understanding of what a movie is and that fictional characters are not real. Movies have been around for a long time, most people have been watching them their entire lives. I don't think at this point that most people have nearly as good an understanding of chatbots. If you can converse with one and it mostly delivers responses like a person would, some people will start treating it like a person and ascribe values to its statements, and that's where it potentially gets dangerous.
[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/16/arts/television/netflix-deleted-13-reasons-why-suicide-scene.html
Disney values their family friendly image too much. Which is why they'll only ever produce safe boring stuff that doesn't take any risks. So you get these kid-friendly superhero and Star Wars movies, which are popular right now, but surely at some point an adult audience would want more? Especially when they're watching it in the privacy of their own room. Looking at Netflix originals (even if they're not very good), I can't see Disney making something like Narcos, 13 reasons why, Devilman, Love Death & Robots, hell even something like Sabrina (Satanic imagery) or She-Ra (gay stuff). Seriously, what shows in [1] excluding "Children and family" section can you see being streamed on Disney+?
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_original_programs_distributed_by_Netflix
The paper's own discussion section explicitly acknowledges potential weaknesses:
This study has several important limitations. First, the quasi-experimental design of our study limits our ability to draw any causal conclusions between the release of 13 Reasons Why and increased suicide rates in young people in the U.S. Nevertheless, the time series and forecasting approaches employed in this study allow us to make credible inferences about this association. The initial increase in youth suicide rates in the month immediately following the series release is concordant with a prior report showing a spike in Internet searches about suicide in the month following release,46 and a small single-hospital study showing an increase in suicide attempt admissions after the series’ premiere. Second, we were unable to assess whether the observed increase in youth suicide rates was attributable to the portrayal of suicide in the series, a lack of adherence to media guidelines (e.g., failure to provide national suicide prevention resources until later months), or other factors. The observation that the series was first released on March 31, 2017 and suicide rates increased that month also raises questions about effects of pre-release media promotion of the series premiere. Third, we did not examine the impact of 13 Reasons Why on specific methods of suicide (e.g., suicide by cutting) due to small cell sizes, which would result in unstable estimates. Fourth, there may have been other events or unmeasured factors that occurred during the study period that might be associated with increased suicide rates. Fifth, our study may have lacked sufficient statistical power to detect a significant association in 10- to 17-year-old girls. Finally, as with most studies looking at possible contagion, we have little understanding of “dose” or context, including who specifically watched the series, when they watched, whether they binge-watched, if it was further discussed in peer-groups, how secondary discussions may have influenced vulnerable individuals, and whether the subsequent focus on suicide prevention may have actually mitigated some of the pronounced contagion effects.
Highly subjective and therefor probably not welcome here, but since this was the comment I saw first:
My Top Netflix Shows:
- Better Call Saul
- Bojack Horseman
- Mindhunter
- Fargo
- Maniac
- The End of the Fucking World
- Master of None
- American Vandal
My Top Netflix Movies:
- Beats of No Nation
- Roma
- Annihilation
- Okja
And where I think your list is wrong:
- 13 Reasons Why
Very problematic show[1]. I found Netflix' response to the criticism lacking and season 2 doubles down on the mistake. Even if one can ignore that, I think the writing and characters are still insultingly thin.
- Ozark
Not bad at all. But also not nearly as good as Breaking Bad. If we didn't live in this gilden television age, I might've found it worth my time
- Altered Carbon
Visually very entertaining. But it's definitely pulp.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13_Reasons_Why#Social_impact
Netflix, Amazon and Apple are producing unique content which will ONLY be available on their respective platforms. Go look at the TV space where you can only watch Stranger Things, Black Mirror, 13 Reasons Why etc on Netflix. And they are talking about extending this to movies.
Seems pretty reasonable to me to be alarmist.
Someone recently commented elsewhere that they were tired of paying for streaming access to a bunch of shows nobody wants to watch, and they wanted access to the most popular movies/network shows/whatever.
I didn't comment then, but FWIW: some of the best shows available are now streaming originals from Netflix, Prime, etc. If you haven't checked out specifically any of the Netflix originals, you're missing out. It's a complete replacement for the non-sports watcher.
As posted in response elsewhere below, here's a list of Netflix's best work:
- Stranger Things - Narcos - The OA - The Haunting of Hill House - Marvel series. All of them! - GLOW - Ozark - Altered Carbon - American Vandal - 13 Reasons Why
Also good:
- Atypical - Love - Flaked - Maniac - Master of None - Chef's Table - Making a Murderer
This is by no means a complete list, you can find that here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_original_programs_distributed_by_Netflix
I tried to skim through it and provide my own short list of what I really liked, so this is just one person's opinion.
Netflix has created some of the best TV shows I have watched in the past few years.
Strangers things, Maniac, The End of the F*ing World, Narcos, On my block, Master of none, El Chapo, Ozark, Glow, Disenchanted, Black mirror, Dare Devil, 13 reasons why, Jessica Jones, The Punisher, A series of unfortunate events, The OA, Orange is the new black
Those are just some of the ones I can recall at the moment.
Only other shows that I use popcorn time to watch are Game of thrones and Homeland.
> Therapy was valuable, but I quit in large part for the above reason: I was at a point where spending an hour or more every week digging around in the dirt of my past was just keeping alive an identity as a victim.
> So I spent the next few years focused on Getting A Life
I think this is the dillema they try to deal with in 13 reasons why season 2. Jessica, who is sexually abused, alternates between identifying herself as the victim and confronting her abuse and moving on, not letting it identify her. While the show was not as good as season 1, I think they tried to capture all aspects of how a victim could potentially feel and that was a good public service.
I've had my subscription for over 10 years. Unfortunately the streaming side does not have what originally attracted me. Fortunately they still have a DVD side to Netflix that has what originally attracted me.
Don't get me wrong. I've found Marco Polo, Stranger Things, House of Cards (S1 & S2) & several other shows to be really interesting. I just don't have the time to watch that many episodes. I prefer a nice short movie to unwind to when I have time.
That said, I wish more books & comics would be turned into a series instead of movies at the theater. Netflix proved this with 13 Reasons Why. Star Wars, Marvel, etc would also benefit from this.
She has the largest Instagram following in the world, that seems to be of note.
"Spring Breakers" was not a uninteresting movie to act in and "13 Reasons Why" seems like a break out hit to have produced.