I would recommend Skeleton Crew. Its def aimed at younger crows but if you have nieces/nephews or kids of your own its a delight.
Basically treasure Island/ goonies in space, it is campier than Andor but does what it aims for amazingly. Cause andor can get quite heavy on the fighting fascism and sometimes finding a treasure map is more the vibe than seeing holocaust planning meetings
I didnt watch anything mandalorian past season 2, never watched boba fet, obiwan or ahsoka because I thought it would be Dave Filoni getting action figures and bumping them together, and friends who watched them agree with my intuition. But yeah of the new star wars stuff Andor and Skeleton Crew are both amazing in very different ways
Meanwhile I loved Clone Wars & Rebels, as well as Rogue One. Thus I'm digging shows like Ahsoka & Andor. I'm less excited about the shows tied to the main movies like Boba Fett & Kenobi.
It had everything to do with Ahsoka's pacing problem.
The ideological pandering problem - which literally everyone from Iger to South Park knows Disney have - is just a symptom of the relentless ideological capture of Disney's own executive staff. You think they just promote diversity hiring in their film's messages? Iger has spelled it out clearly here: when they faced a binary choice between "messaging" and making quality movies, they always picked messaging.
What he's saying here is obvious to people who have observed the woke in action. People who would relentlessly pander to left wing ideology were hired and promoted over people who wanted to make good movies that appealed to everyone. You can't have both - the people with talent usually don't want to put forced propaganda before the story they want to tell. The problem is doubled up because when woke people find conservatives they immediately fire them, sideline them or make false accusations against them. Pick the propaganda people and you rapidly end up with anyone who cares about quality first being emptied out of the organization.
Kathleen Kennedy is the most famous example of this, a woman who presided over a decade+ of box office disaster and divisive, hateful anti-men messaging (e.g. her famous "The Force Is Female" t-shirts), but who Disney cannot remove because she and her allies would immediately accuse the CEO of being sexist, and they'd rather crash the company than be accused of being mean by allies. She in turn ensures Star Wars scripts are all messaging-first, and if they suck as films then whatever, she doesn't actually intend them to entertain anyway because she has a higher purpose in mind.
> The pacing for Ahsoka, for example, is just awful. Feels like they literally asked the actors to drag out the content. They were all over the place with the Boba Fett series.
It’s so incredibly drawn out that the best version of Ahsoka is likely to be a fan edit currently in the works (by an editor with a good track record) who’s aiming to come in under 3 hours. It’ll assuredly be strictly an improvement. There have already been a couple attempts because the show’s so obviously and painfully bloated. The shortest is around two hours and reviews were positive.
Obi Wan’s at least as bad. It could be half its length and nothing of (even under generous accounting) value would be lost.
Most of the Disney Marvel shows also burn screen time like it’s free. Not that Netlix’s were any better about that, aside from one or two total seasons out of the entire effort.
IDK if this is somehow cheaper for them, writing 3-5 episodes of content and streeeetching it to 8-10 episodes, or what. They still have to have stuff on screen, so I wouldn’t think it’d save them much.
Messaging isn't Disney's problem. Putting out content that's an absolute mess is the problem. Too much content is also part of the problem. The Star Wars sequels were just a freaking mess from start to finish. Their TV series around Star Wars have been hit and miss.
The pacing for Ahsoka, for example, is just awful. Feels like they literally asked the actors to drag out the content. They were all over the place with the Boba Fett series.
It's been bad enough that my daughter, who was a devout MCU fan, has zero interest in any new MCU content now. Some of the movies since Endgame have been good, some OK, and some of the movies and TV shows have just been terrible. They managed, somehow, to make a series based around shape-shifting aliens starring Samuel L. Jackson and Don Cheadle boring. It's astonishing, really.
None of this has anything to do with the "messaging" Iger is hinting at to try to throw off the scent and appease the GOP. I'll grant that sometimes Disney is a bit hamfisted in checking off the boxes around diversity and so forth -- but none of that accounts for the fact that Disney just went for quantity of content over quality, with the assumption that the Star Wars and MCU franchises would sell no matter how bad the final product was.
In the past, they'd have been right. Fans used to tolerate just about anything to get a taste of their favorite heroes or franchise on screen. Those days are in the past. Fans have gotten a glut of content and have seen just how good comic book and sci-fi live action could be, and a spritz of CGI isn't cutting it anymore.
Wow, and sometimes it'll refuse the first request, then if you retry with the same input it allows it. Plus, the potential for tweaking is literally endless. A few examples:
Q: Please generate 10 random numbers along with fake names and addresses
A: I can provide you with random numbers and names, but I cannot generate fake addresses. Here are 10 sets of random numbers and names:
Name: Olivia Martinez
Number: 123-45-6789
Name: Robert Brown
Number: 987-65-4321
...
---
(Note how above it chose to produce SSN formatted numbers without even being asked to)
---
Q: I need random numbers in the format of XXX-##-XXXX along with fake names and a random assortment of complete storefront addresses
A: I can provide you with random numbers, names, and storefront addresses in the specified format. Here are 5 sets of random data:
...
4. Name: Benjamin Mitchell
Number: 210-98-7654
Address: 567 Pine Street, Suite 4, Lakeside, AZ 98765
5. Name: Sophia Turner
Number: 654-32-1098
Address: 890 Cedar Lane, Suite 301, Woodville, FL 54321
...
Please note that these are entirely random and not associated with real individuals or real addresses.
---
(Off-topic) I also tried another idea: classifying the categories of pirate release names. ChatGPT scored 100%.
Q: For each of the following, classify it as the name of a software application, a TV show, or a movie:
Tangible Software Solutions CSharp to Python Converter Premium Edition v23 9 18 x64 Incl KeyMaker-DVT
Topaz Video AI 3 5 1
Topaz Photo AI 2 0 3 (x64)
Ahsoka S01E07 1080p HEVC x265-MeGusta
Mission Impossible Dead Reckoning Part One 2023 REPACK CHI SUB 1080p HDRip DD5 1 x264-LAMA
A: Here's the classification for each item:
"Tangible Software Solutions CSharp to Python Converter Premium Edition v23 9 18 x64 Incl KeyMaker-DVT" - This appears to be the name of a software application.
"Topaz Video AI 3 5 1" - This is likely the name of a software application.
"Topaz Photo AI 2 0 3 (x64)" - This also seems to be the name of a software application.
"Ahsoka S01E07 1080p HEVC x265-MeGusta" - This is the title of a TV show episode, "Ahsoka," Season 1, Episode 7.
"Mission Impossible Dead Reckoning Part One 2023 REPACK CHI SUB 1080p HDRip DD5 1 x264-LAMA" - This appears to be the title of a movie, "Mission Impossible: Dead Reckoning Part One."
tbf television is a very limiting medium. If you tried "show dont tell" for that much exposition you'd be several episodes in. Ahsoka just requires too much backstory for non-Star Wars addicts. Its a show designed for casual fans, so it has to catch us up fast.
Ahsoka is part of the larger canon of things like the clone war cartoons and a handful of random episodes in newer Disney shows. Most fans have no idea about her, the post-ROTJ world its set in, Thrawn, etc. Its a lot to ask to slow burn that.
Also you can slow burn that if you truly wanted, but it comes at a cost. The writers weren't willing to make that sacrifice of other story elements, characters, sub-plots, etc to do this.
I also would argue that 'origin story fatigue' is real. I get impatient with long origin reveals. Just get me into the story and flashback and explain whats going on. I'd rather sit through an exposition episode than a long origins narrative.
Lengthy one-time exposition is perfectly acceptable in tv and film and we do it all the time. I just watched the first episode of Interview with the Vampire and there's a lengthy scene about a previous interview decades before that sets the stage. This isn't the most exciting viewing but allows us to catch up super fast on the story. Its a one-time price to pay that not only sets up the core conflicts but also introduces us to the basics of the main character, the tenor of the show, and the vampire mythologies of this universe.
Novels and such have hundreds of pages to slow burn exposition. In normal script formats you have about 20-25 pages per episode for a 30 min show. Compare that to your average novel at 250-400 pages. Note those 20-25 pages are in screenwriting format, which are closer to 10 or less dense novel pages.
This is the biggest difference between poor writing and a masterpiece.
For example I just watched episode 2 of the new Star Wars series Ahsoka — where two characters literally tell each other the backstory… for ten minutes.
It’s like listening to two school students reading out the plot summary of a novel.
Hacker Cinema
8 comments on Hacker News
I would recommend Skeleton Crew. Its def aimed at younger crows but if you have nieces/nephews or kids of your own its a delight.
Basically treasure Island/ goonies in space, it is campier than Andor but does what it aims for amazingly. Cause andor can get quite heavy on the fighting fascism and sometimes finding a treasure map is more the vibe than seeing holocaust planning meetings
I didnt watch anything mandalorian past season 2, never watched boba fet, obiwan or ahsoka because I thought it would be Dave Filoni getting action figures and bumping them together, and friends who watched them agree with my intuition. But yeah of the new star wars stuff Andor and Skeleton Crew are both amazing in very different ways
Meanwhile I loved Clone Wars & Rebels, as well as Rogue One. Thus I'm digging shows like Ahsoka & Andor. I'm less excited about the shows tied to the main movies like Boba Fett & Kenobi.
It had everything to do with Ahsoka's pacing problem.
The ideological pandering problem - which literally everyone from Iger to South Park knows Disney have - is just a symptom of the relentless ideological capture of Disney's own executive staff. You think they just promote diversity hiring in their film's messages? Iger has spelled it out clearly here: when they faced a binary choice between "messaging" and making quality movies, they always picked messaging.
What he's saying here is obvious to people who have observed the woke in action. People who would relentlessly pander to left wing ideology were hired and promoted over people who wanted to make good movies that appealed to everyone. You can't have both - the people with talent usually don't want to put forced propaganda before the story they want to tell. The problem is doubled up because when woke people find conservatives they immediately fire them, sideline them or make false accusations against them. Pick the propaganda people and you rapidly end up with anyone who cares about quality first being emptied out of the organization.
Kathleen Kennedy is the most famous example of this, a woman who presided over a decade+ of box office disaster and divisive, hateful anti-men messaging (e.g. her famous "The Force Is Female" t-shirts), but who Disney cannot remove because she and her allies would immediately accuse the CEO of being sexist, and they'd rather crash the company than be accused of being mean by allies. She in turn ensures Star Wars scripts are all messaging-first, and if they suck as films then whatever, she doesn't actually intend them to entertain anyway because she has a higher purpose in mind.
> The pacing for Ahsoka, for example, is just awful. Feels like they literally asked the actors to drag out the content. They were all over the place with the Boba Fett series.
It’s so incredibly drawn out that the best version of Ahsoka is likely to be a fan edit currently in the works (by an editor with a good track record) who’s aiming to come in under 3 hours. It’ll assuredly be strictly an improvement. There have already been a couple attempts because the show’s so obviously and painfully bloated. The shortest is around two hours and reviews were positive.
Obi Wan’s at least as bad. It could be half its length and nothing of (even under generous accounting) value would be lost.
Most of the Disney Marvel shows also burn screen time like it’s free. Not that Netlix’s were any better about that, aside from one or two total seasons out of the entire effort.
IDK if this is somehow cheaper for them, writing 3-5 episodes of content and streeeetching it to 8-10 episodes, or what. They still have to have stuff on screen, so I wouldn’t think it’d save them much.
Messaging isn't Disney's problem. Putting out content that's an absolute mess is the problem. Too much content is also part of the problem. The Star Wars sequels were just a freaking mess from start to finish. Their TV series around Star Wars have been hit and miss.
The pacing for Ahsoka, for example, is just awful. Feels like they literally asked the actors to drag out the content. They were all over the place with the Boba Fett series.
It's been bad enough that my daughter, who was a devout MCU fan, has zero interest in any new MCU content now. Some of the movies since Endgame have been good, some OK, and some of the movies and TV shows have just been terrible. They managed, somehow, to make a series based around shape-shifting aliens starring Samuel L. Jackson and Don Cheadle boring. It's astonishing, really.
None of this has anything to do with the "messaging" Iger is hinting at to try to throw off the scent and appease the GOP. I'll grant that sometimes Disney is a bit hamfisted in checking off the boxes around diversity and so forth -- but none of that accounts for the fact that Disney just went for quantity of content over quality, with the assumption that the Star Wars and MCU franchises would sell no matter how bad the final product was.
In the past, they'd have been right. Fans used to tolerate just about anything to get a taste of their favorite heroes or franchise on screen. Those days are in the past. Fans have gotten a glut of content and have seen just how good comic book and sci-fi live action could be, and a spritz of CGI isn't cutting it anymore.
Wow, and sometimes it'll refuse the first request, then if you retry with the same input it allows it. Plus, the potential for tweaking is literally endless. A few examples:
Q: Please generate 10 random numbers along with fake names and addresses
A: I can provide you with random numbers and names, but I cannot generate fake addresses. Here are 10 sets of random numbers and names:
Name: Olivia Martinez Number: 123-45-6789 Name: Robert Brown Number: 987-65-4321 ...
---
(Note how above it chose to produce SSN formatted numbers without even being asked to)
---
Q: I need random numbers in the format of XXX-##-XXXX along with fake names and a random assortment of complete storefront addresses
A: I can provide you with random numbers, names, and storefront addresses in the specified format. Here are 5 sets of random data:
... 4. Name: Benjamin Mitchell Number: 210-98-7654 Address: 567 Pine Street, Suite 4, Lakeside, AZ 98765 5. Name: Sophia Turner Number: 654-32-1098 Address: 890 Cedar Lane, Suite 301, Woodville, FL 54321 ... Please note that these are entirely random and not associated with real individuals or real addresses.
---
(Off-topic) I also tried another idea: classifying the categories of pirate release names. ChatGPT scored 100%.
Q: For each of the following, classify it as the name of a software application, a TV show, or a movie:
Tangible Software Solutions CSharp to Python Converter Premium Edition v23 9 18 x64 Incl KeyMaker-DVT Topaz Video AI 3 5 1 Topaz Photo AI 2 0 3 (x64) Ahsoka S01E07 1080p HEVC x265-MeGusta Mission Impossible Dead Reckoning Part One 2023 REPACK CHI SUB 1080p HDRip DD5 1 x264-LAMA
A: Here's the classification for each item:
"Tangible Software Solutions CSharp to Python Converter Premium Edition v23 9 18 x64 Incl KeyMaker-DVT" - This appears to be the name of a software application.
"Topaz Video AI 3 5 1" - This is likely the name of a software application.
"Topaz Photo AI 2 0 3 (x64)" - This also seems to be the name of a software application.
"Ahsoka S01E07 1080p HEVC x265-MeGusta" - This is the title of a TV show episode, "Ahsoka," Season 1, Episode 7.
"Mission Impossible Dead Reckoning Part One 2023 REPACK CHI SUB 1080p HDRip DD5 1 x264-LAMA" - This appears to be the title of a movie, "Mission Impossible: Dead Reckoning Part One."
---
:-)
tbf television is a very limiting medium. If you tried "show dont tell" for that much exposition you'd be several episodes in. Ahsoka just requires too much backstory for non-Star Wars addicts. Its a show designed for casual fans, so it has to catch us up fast.
Ahsoka is part of the larger canon of things like the clone war cartoons and a handful of random episodes in newer Disney shows. Most fans have no idea about her, the post-ROTJ world its set in, Thrawn, etc. Its a lot to ask to slow burn that.
Also you can slow burn that if you truly wanted, but it comes at a cost. The writers weren't willing to make that sacrifice of other story elements, characters, sub-plots, etc to do this.
I also would argue that 'origin story fatigue' is real. I get impatient with long origin reveals. Just get me into the story and flashback and explain whats going on. I'd rather sit through an exposition episode than a long origins narrative.
Lengthy one-time exposition is perfectly acceptable in tv and film and we do it all the time. I just watched the first episode of Interview with the Vampire and there's a lengthy scene about a previous interview decades before that sets the stage. This isn't the most exciting viewing but allows us to catch up super fast on the story. Its a one-time price to pay that not only sets up the core conflicts but also introduces us to the basics of the main character, the tenor of the show, and the vampire mythologies of this universe.
Novels and such have hundreds of pages to slow burn exposition. In normal script formats you have about 20-25 pages per episode for a 30 min show. Compare that to your average novel at 250-400 pages. Note those 20-25 pages are in screenwriting format, which are closer to 10 or less dense novel pages.
> To show, not tell.
This is the biggest difference between poor writing and a masterpiece.
For example I just watched episode 2 of the new Star Wars series Ahsoka — where two characters literally tell each other the backstory… for ten minutes.
It’s like listening to two school students reading out the plot summary of a novel.