Hacker Cinema
Citadel
2023 · TV series · 2 seasons
Created by Josh Appelbaum, David Weil, Bryan Oh
What if you lost your memory? What if a spy didn't know they were a spy? Years ago, the top agents of Citadel, Mason Kane and Nadia Sinh, had their minds wiped. But, they're called back to action as sinister forces emerge from the past. With the help of spymaster Bernard Orlick, these former lovers must remember the past to save the future.
3 negative3 neutralfrom 6 commenters
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6 comments on Hacker News
Are they really blaming anyone? This is a good thing, but it's destined to remain pretty niche. The vast majority of people do what's easiest and what everyone else is doing. They like streaming and watch whatever is put on their home screen. Tons of people watched Electric State, Red Notice, The Tomorrow War. Citadel got a season 2.
Related trivia (he mentions he worked on low budget shows prior to this), 650 million dollar budget for show's two seasons or 26-27 million per episode: https://www.indiewire.com/news/general-news/andor-tony-gilroy-genocide-pretty-effortless-1235127755/
For reference, Rings of Power, Jupiter's Legacy and Citadel (US version) cost about twice as much per episode on Amazon, and Game of Thrones on HBO started at five to six million per episode and went up to 15 million by the final season.
Can you elaborate on this a bit? The pricing for the services seem to be in-line with the rest of the industry[1], and I'm not aware of any "block buster" TV Shows or Movies released on either Prime Video nor AppleTV (in fact, Prime Video has one of the biggest TV failures of all time[2] under it's belt, titled "Citadel").
> This behavior has led to existing film studios folding and getting bought out by these giants.
Netflix, Paramount and the rest are swallowing up small productions too.
From an industry-outsider's perspective - now seems to be the best time in history for small, quirky, weird, niche productions to get in front of huge viewership numbers.
[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/01/29/amazon-prime-video-ads-streaming/
[2] https://gamerant.com/citadel-prime-video-expensive-failure-explained
Per their email:
An update on Prime Video
Dear Prime member,
We are writing to you today about an upcoming change to your Prime Video experience. Starting January 29, Prime Video movies and TV shows will include limited advertisements. This will allow us to continue investing in compelling content and keep increasing that investment over a long period of time. We aim to have meaningfully fewer ads than linear TV and other streaming TV providers. No action is required from you, and there is no change to the current price of your Prime membership. We will also offer a new ad-free option for an additional $2.99 per month* that you can sign up for here.
Prime is a very compelling value. Prime members enjoy a wide range of shopping, savings, and entertainment benefits, including:
More than 300 million items are available with free Prime shipping and tens of millions of the most popular items are available with free Same-Day or One-Day Delivery. Access to exclusive and broad streaming video content (including Prime Video exclusives like The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power, The Boys, Tom Clancy's Jack Ryan, Citadel, The Wheel of Time, Reacher, and The Summer I Turned Pretty, as well as blockbuster movies such as Air, Creed III, Dungeons & Dragons, Candy Cane Lane with Eddie Murphy, and exclusive live sports including NFL Thursday Night Football). Access to Prime Video Channels, which provides an unmatched selection of subscription channels like Max, Paramount+ with SHOWTIME, BET+, MGM+, ViX+, Crunchyroll, PBS KIDS, NBA League Pass, MLB.TV, and STARZ—with no extra apps to download, and no cable required. Customers only pay for the ones they want, and can cancel anytime. The ability to use your Prime shopping benefits—like fast, free delivery, a seamless checkout experience, 24/7 live chat support, and hassle-free returns—on online stores beyond Amazon.com with Buy with Prime. Exclusive deals and shopping events like Prime Day. Ad-free listening of 100 million songs and millions of podcast episodes with Amazon Music. Prescription medications as low as $1 per month and fast, free shipping from Amazon Pharmacy. Access to unlimited eligible generic prescription medications for only $5 per month (including free shipping) with RxPass from Amazon Pharmacy. High-quality health care from One Medical for only $9 per month (or $99 annually), with the option to add up to five additional memberships for the family for only $6 per month (or $66 annually) each. Free two-hour Fresh grocery delivery on orders over $100 (and delivery charges between $6.95 to $9.95 for orders less than $100), and in-store savings on select groceries at Amazon Fresh and Whole Foods Market stores across the U.S. Unlimited photo storage with Amazon Photos. Gaming benefits with Prime Gaming. More than 3,000 books and magazines with Prime Reading. A free, one-year Grubhub+ membership trial valued at $120 per year, offering unlimited $0 delivery fees on orders over $12.
And, you can expect additional features and programs added in the future for our Prime members.
As mentioned above, no action is required from you. If you wish to sign up for the ad-free option, you can click here. And, as always, if you have questions about your Prime membership, you can manage your account here.
Thank you for being a valued member of Amazon Prime.
Sincerely, The Amazon Prime team
> This leads to shows like “Ted Lasso”—a “sunshine enema”, in the words of one of its producers—and “The Morning Show”, which debuted as a hard-hitting drama about a broadcast-news network’s toxic culture but has degenerated into a mindless soap opera. Amazon, whose early TV commissioning was more daring, now also focuses on the middle ground, with series such as “Citadel”, a big-budget, low-imagination thriller with plenty of explosions and no surprises.
It's pretty telling, to me, that the TV show I have most enjoyed in the last year is "Who is Erin Carter?", a solidly B grade miniseries. Little character development and little in the way of relatability, drama or believability, but at least it had realistic motivations for its main character: wanting to fit in, be accepted.
"Ted Lasso", I just get "the ick" thinking about. Even the name seems "1980s porn star"-ish. "The Morning Show" was always going to be a sub-par soap, just from the name and setting.
The new generation of writers is low calibre.
I’d rather an explanation why so many expensive shows suck.
Citadel is terrible. As though the show runners have no idea what makes a show like that good. Keep in mind that you’re asking people to suspend disbelief. Don’t continually challenge that disbelief. I tried the show, said meh, tried again and turned it off in disgust. Compare to John wick (same target) doesn’t have a great story, but they ask you to suspend disbelief once and then never challenge you again. It’s got character, pathos. Not magical fucking skis.
Rings of power sucked terribly. I remember being repeatedly amazed at how such a high production value show could grab me not at all. The first fight scene was mind blowing. And yet I didn’t care. The ship they sail in the (second?) episode. Gorgeous, wonderful, compelling. I remember thinking. You built this whole unique wooden ship, and actually learned to sail it just to convince me of the authenticity of the scene. Only to throw it away five min later. The story and dialogue? Utter crap. Don’t even get me started on the narration. Bro. Go back to your notes from your first creative writing class. A quarter of the way down the first page you’ll see something that says “Show, don’t tell.” You need to actually sit down and figure out what that means.
What to know how they get maximum bang for their buck? They need someone on each project (with veto rights) who actually knows how to tell a story.
The thing they’re lacking isn’t expensive, but it does take a bit of rigor and someone with the courage and power to say no.