Hacker Cinema
Crimson Tide
1995 · Film · 116 min
Directed by Tony Scott
After the Cold War, a breakaway Russian republic with nuclear warheads becomes a possible worldwide threat. U.S. submarine Capt. Frank Ramsey signs on a relatively green but highly recommended Lt. Cmdr. Ron Hunter to the USS Alabama, which may be the only ship able to stop a possible Armageddon. When Ramsey insists that the Alabama must act aggressively, Hunter, fearing they will start rather than stop a disaster, leads a potential mutiny to stop him.
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19 comments on Hacker News
Adm Greenert nicely describes the attitude toward early 90s sub movies (Hunt for Red October vs Crimson Tide). For this audience, in addition to driving maneuvers, he might have added that the main premise of Red October (a clipped message) never could have happened under the existing communication protocol.
It's funny because Crimson Tide is picked out here as one of the least realistic.
The mention some alternative modern movies instead
Think about Crimson Tide? A movie I know but still an example of internal conflict to could occur over carrying out controversial orders.
Somewhat related (submarine war movie), is Crimson Tide with Denzel Washington and Gene Hackman.
I can't vouch for the military accuracy, but can say that the drama and intensity is one of best i've seen.
I absolutely adored him in Crimson Tide and Enemy of the State. Brilliant movies.
Crimson Tide - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112740/ Gene Hackman, and Denzel Washington with the always outstanding musical score of Hans Zimmer.
Absolutely bonkers that Hackman quit acting more than 20 years ago [0] — "Welcome to Mooseport (2004)" was his last film. But his body of work in my mind feels as timelessly relevant and fresh as Clint Eastwood's and Bill Murray's. Maybe because I love rewatching Unforgiven and Crimson Tide. I haven't even seen French Connection, which earned him his first Oscar. RIP to this legend.
[0] https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000432/
Crimson Tide is a 1995 American action thriller film directed by Tony Scott and produced by Don Simpson and Jerry Bruckheimer. It takes place during a period of political turmoil in Russia, in which ultranationalists threaten to launch nuclear missiles at the United States and Japan.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimson_Tide_(film)
If you are hired to follow, then you are supposed to follow. You can give advice and suggestions but you have to fall in line when an executive decision is made. That's how a team works, otherwise you aren't doing your job.
If you're hired to lead. Then you need to make decisions and you're responsible for the success and failure of those decisions. You should have profound beliefs about why you make your decisions but also be able to take advice and suggestions, but at the end of the day, the success or failure is on your responsibility, not the advice givers - thus you always have the right to not act on others advice and suggestions.
It's important to know what your role is in any organisation.
I actually like this 1995 movie Crimson Tide that illustrates these principles while exploring moral ambiguities and procedural issues while under huge amount of stress where the lives of not only men in the sub is at stake, but the lives of whole nations when it comes to making decisions and when it is a good time to challenge those decisions.
Funny story about the resulting film: The navy so loved the book that the film was given total military support. Access to submarines, b-roll footage ... they hoped it would be TopGun for the rest of the USN. But then came Crimson Tide (1995). Mutiny on a Russian nuclear submarine? Fine. Mutiny on a US nuclear submarine? No.
> that hardware is entirely unavailable for content critical of the military.
It's not directly available. As in, you can't film on a US naval vessel or on a US military base without their support. Stock footage or footage from public spaces are allowed. You may also be able to get the support of another country or make use of mothballed or otherwise decommissioned systems if you have the right connections and money.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimson_Tide_(film)
Used footage of the real USS Alabama, used a decommissioned (and sold-off) submarine, and a French aircraft carrier.
That reminds me of the fancy words about submarine captains at the beginning of Crimson Tide.
https://youtu.be/0TVhxwmNIKQ
Somebody ought to make a film, serious or funny I don't care...
There's a great 1995 movie called Crimson Tide which explores this further.
There's a movie that reviews that situation in a navy (nuclear submarine) context, it's called 'Crimson Tide'.
It also raises a bunch of issues around:
- Kessler Syndrome, a la "Is the plotline of Gravity inevitable with increasing commercialization of space?"
- Weaponization of space. If you could get 4 unauthorized satellites up on a launch that was forbidden because "they're a danger to other satellites", could you do the same with satellites that are intentionally a danger to other satellites? Could a private company knock out the U.S's spy satellites at just the moment they are most needed? Could it set up its own spy network?
- How about ABM defense? Could a private company create a network of smart space junk with the purpose of stopping a potential nuclear war before it starts? (Incidentally, such an organization could end up in the position of both saving humanity and opposing U.S. national interests, given that the U.S. has the largest stockpile of nuclear weapons on Earth, which should make Americans wonder if U.S. national interests are aligned with humanity. Crimson Tide was a great movie.)
- More generally: nation states have traditionally had a monopoly around certain technologies. Spaceflight, weaponry, cryptography, communication networks. That monopoly is fraying, or in some cases, has already frayed beyond repair. What does that mean for the power balance on earth, and for social organization on the planet? There are some private organizations that are arguably more powerful than full nation-states nowadays.
21st century sorts of problems indeed. At least the 21st century looks like it'll be exciting, if somewhat scary.
My family calls this the "Crimson Tide Effect".
It was named thus because we were once eating in a bar/restaurant situated below ground level, with no mobile phone reception whatsoever. At one point, someone mentioned "that submarine movie with Denzel Washington and Gene Hackman in it." We couldn't remember the name of the movie. We could almost recite the entire script, but couldn't say the name of the danged movie.
We tried (in vain) all the way through lunch. We managed the name of the submarine, the Alabama, but not the name of the movie. So the instant we left, off to the Internet movie database. Crimson Tide! Ah, because it was the Alabama! It makes sense now!
Most recent occurrence was two days ago, when we couldn't remember the name of the band that sang "Cult of Personality" for over 15 minutes. We could remember that they were a rare instance of a rock band with black people in it. We could remember that they were not a one-hit wonder, because they had one other hit.
I can only hope that memory storage has been repurposed for more useful data rather than simply lost.
Should have gone with the name "Crimson Tide", as that movie was actually relevant...
You act like DoD is going out into Hollywood to change the movies directors are making.
It's almost precisely the opposite: Hollywood studios are trying to enlist DoD help in making their movies.
DoD doesn't always help. They didn't help with the famous movie "Officer and a Gentleman", for instance (and not because the Class Drill Instructor was mean in the screenplay either).
Likewise, DoD did not assist with the film 'Crimson Tide' as the Navy objected to the core portions of the screenplay.
But like any other business relationship, it's not DoD's job to volunteer to help in situations where the movie itself would portray DoD in a negative light. So they do ask for changes to movies to be made if the director wants assistance sometimes, but that's always up to the studio/director to decide.
I actually like Hans Zimmer a lot more than John Williams - the latter has a very distinctive style that can seem very in-your-face, more like an "Oh hey, this was done by John Williams" than something that best fits the film. Harry Potter, Star Wars, and Indiana Jones are all recognizable as Williams soundtracks, even though they're very different films.
Zimmer seems to vary his music a lot more to fit the needs of the film - it's just universally good, it's not universally Zimmer. The Lion King is very different from Crimson Tide, which is very different from Gladiator, which is very different from The Dark Knight and Inception.
BTW, I think Basil Poledouris (The Hunt for Red October, Wind) was another underrated film composer whose music is much better than his reputation.