Hacker Cinema
Heroes
2006 · TV series · 43 min episodes · 4 seasons
Created by Tim Kring
Common people discover that they have super powers. Their lives intertwine as a devastating event must be prevented.
9 positive9 negative3 mixed12 neutralfrom 33 commenters
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36 comments on Hacker News
Heroes was a series where the writers strike that happened afters season 1 (or 2?) really made a difference. Ok, I should have formulated that better but I am no writer either. RIP. Too young.
> Oh wow. That’s why I’ve not been able to appreciate SCP writings?
I feel like there's a pattern (genre?) there that's been niche-popular for for 15-20 years now, which includes TV shows like Lost or Heroes or The Lost Room. It's some variation of magical-realism, for an audience that always wants more and more surprise or twists or weird juxtapositions of normal and abnormal, room for crafting and trading fan-theories and predictions.
But eventually, it gets harder to keep up the balancing-act, and nobody's figured out how to end that kind of story in a way that satisfies, so the final twist is the lack of resolution.
Conversely, I feel like Lost is massively in the opposite category. They did get their massive up-front commitment for 6 seasons while in season 2. The character and thematic arcs are probably some of the best I've seen in TV, while handling a massive ensemble cast.
Heroes, I agree with you, no question.
Look at the previous writers strike and what happened to shows like Heroes. Except now it's even worse now that we're in the streaming age. Netflix and other streaming platforms want a half or full season written before the greenlight a project, rather than just a pilot episode. The quality will dive just like in did last time, and people will unsubscribe or just stop watching Netflix which is the last thing they're going to want.
...and season two of Heroes.
Totally unimportant. Why do you classify GOT and Lost as nerd sensations? GoT I cam understand. It comes from a geeky book series and didn’t start off as the monster it became. GoT also did things [mainstream] tv or media in general did not do. Like killing characters off.
Lost on the other hand was a mainstream viral popular show. Shows like Heroes for a small period of time had related hype. Or a film like Inception. South Park did a good take on Inception before they even watched it themselves. It may be dressed as intellectual, nerdy fodder. The hype of making them seem nerdier than they are is my anal geeky issue.
This entire comment is silly. I’m trying to rationalize my anal elitism with what really good media is. As if I or any one should be the arbiter for such things.
—-
Thanks for the Nebula name drop. The price is really cheap with coupon codes. I’m surprised Dropout is doing well enough. I thought it was effectively dead as the rest of College Humor is. Luckily CH’s big impact on my life, Jake & Amir web seriess, was sold back to the namesakes.
Well the final books didn't come out yet so we can't say the movie was worse. I suspect the books will be just as bad because the series suffers from the same effect many stories like this suffer from: The writer establishes many interesting threads without knowing where they lead, and then can't tie them up and the series falls flat in the end. Happened with Lost, with Heroes and many other series as well.
Yeah full solar eclipses are a lot of fun. I had an experience in Seattle a couple of years ago.
They perfectly align and all you see is a thin ring from the sun flares.
In that perfect eclipse, you can look at the sun with the naked eye and it’s beautiful and humbling. Like the day suddenly turns into a night for a few minutes.
The TV series “Heroes” was all about this eclipse. It’s a fun show if you enjoy this kind of things.
I feel this way about a lot of television shows.
Heroes is a great example. The first seasons was amazing, the 2nd season was hot garbage. They had no idea what made the first season so great.
Season 1 of Heroes was pretty dang solid for a TV drama with time travel though.
Well Dr. Who and Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy are absurd but fun. Lost and Heroes both past season 2 are painful.
I actually think Babylon 5, Seasons 2-4, was outstanding. I'm not sure of what you mean by being very negative about some of the acting -- I see the range as being from competent to brilliant, with almost nothing that was outright bad, a few specific lines perhaps excepted.
There was quite a bit of good stuff in the fifth season as well, actually, mainly the Centauri and telepath arcs.
I also can't think of any effects that are distracting on a rewatch.
I stopped watching Lost early on, perhaps in Season 2. I stopped watching Heroes a few episodes into Season 2; when Kristen Bell of all people seemed to be giving a bad performance, I concluded that the show was probably doomed.
The Buffy vs. Angel vs. Firefly discussion is a good one. Babylon 5, Veronica Mars, and the recent Battlestar Galactica also fit in. Ditto Dollhouse, Heroes, Alias and Lost.
I'd say:
-- It's just a detail, but recall that the first season of Buffy was actually just a half-season in length.
-- The first three seasons of Buffy had a very clear meta-metaphor. :) It posited monsters as being a good representation for what happens in actual high school life.
-- That aspect of the show hit its stride in the Buffy/Angel romance: Girl sleeps with guy and he turns into a monster.
-- Firefly was good, but nothing in it was as brilliant as, say, the best of Buffy.
-- A lot of shows started with a lot of monster-of-the-week/crisis-of-the-week and emphasized the ongoing story more later into the run. But most of the shows cited did at least some standalone stories all the way to the end. (Babylon 5 is one exception).
-- Firefly never got past that part of the show's evolution. This may be one reason it never matched Buffy's brilliance.
-- Not knowing whether or not a show will be renewed is a huge problem. If you're a fan of Buffy or Angel or Babylon 5, you're familiar with the consequences.
-- The writers' strike messed up multiple shows, or at least their audiences. I never went back to watching Battlestar Galactica post-strike.
-- Joss Whedon tried to oversee three shows at once. That didn't go well. Each of Buffy, Angel and Firefly deserved more of his attention.
-- Dollhouse didn't have real characters, the people running the place excepted. It was never going to work.
-- Some shows have a brilliant idea for an overarching story, in which the big story and the individual characters' experiences and arcs mesh beautifully. Then that story comes to a natural end, and the show is never quite as good again. Veronica Mars Season 1 is a great example. Ditto the first 1 1/2 or 2 seasons of Alias. Ditto Babylon 5 after things were wrapped up in Season 4.
-- I'd put Battlestar Galactica into the same group. The best part was the first season, as everybody builds a society on the fly )as it were) that can survive against terrible odds. The plots with the election and the defeat and the aftermath weren't as good. And the pseudo-mystical stuff toward the end was just weird.
I wonder how much Firefly has benefited from being cancelled so early. I imagine if Heroes got cancelled after about 10-13 episodes, it'd be very well perceived right now. The subsequent writers' strike mess and not being able to handle an evolving story messed that show up quite a bit. So many shows, even really well done ones, taper off at a point due to various production issues (Babylon 5 comes to mind).
There are plenty of American shows that should have been cancelled after a single season, but weren't because they were popular.
Stuff like Prison Break, Heroes. In fact Prison Break's season 1 had a very clear, obvious conclusion (they broke out) - so there was no clear path for the story to take after that. In Britain it would not have been picked up for a second series.
I can't tell if this is a joke, but I'm going to humor you.
I think your money would be better spent on, say, therapy to help you deal with your issues of belonging. One movie starring an Asian-looking man is not going to fix your identity issues, nor is any external event.
Asians are less than 5% of the country, so there aren't as many accusations of racism when movies are missing them as when movies are missing African Americans. Also, the "Asian American" statistic includes people from the Indian subcontinent. So if you feel like you're in a country that has very few people who look like you, you're right! If you were white in China, you'd feel the same way.
Regarding Asian actors: John Cho has had a fairly successful career, and it's only on the upswing. The Netflix show Marco Polo is absolutely full of Asians. Lucy Liu is the star of a TV show and many movies.
I find it ironic that you're crying about discrimination, but you mention several times that you want to see a male playing a lead role. Everyone wants the world to be in their image, but it never will be. Do what you can to change it, and if you can't, don't make yourself miserable.
Edit: Main characters in Silicon Valley, The Big Bang Theory, Heroes, The Last Air Bender, and probably lots of other films are Indian. Ben Kingsley is super-famous and half Indian.
I think it's because it's easy. Dystopia bring automatic conflict which is easy/lazy to dramatize.
Still all isn't bad, it isn't Star Trek, but there are non-dystopic popular fictions:
- Her
- Stargate SG-1 and spinouts
- Fringe
- Warehouse 13
- Eureka
- Sanctuary
- The new crop of super hero shows and movies, Arrow, SHIELD, The Flash
- Heroes
- The short lived new V series
- Dr. Who
- Guardians of the Galaxy
- Inception
- Gravity
and more....
in Literature there's a huge bounty of great non-dystopic stuff too.
- The Golden Oecumene
- The Culture series
- The Night's Dawn Trilogy
- The Gap series
You just have to know where to look.
Two thoughts:
1. Certain standalone authors had that strength. Stephen King certainly did in the 80s-90s.
2. I think this is why certain fiction series tend to have very strong followings. Regardless of the HBO Series, people were hungry for "Dance with Dragons" when it came out.
The internet certainly helps with TV series. Much of the popularity of "LOST" was the skillful manipulation of that popularity by the production. Compare "LOST" with "Heroes" (poor quality rapidly squandered popularity) and "Firefly" (utter failure to leverage the growing fandom.)
For now, yes. I would gladly pay Netflix more, especially if they'd carry shows like Mythbusters (and don't think they won't, eventually). That $71, though, is a waste of money, because 95% of it is crap. We haven't had cable since Shark Week 2008 - that was the straw that broke us. Of an hour, twenty minutes were commercials, thirty-five minutes was reality-show crap asking the divers how they felt about swimming with scary sharks, and about five minutes were actual footage of sharks.
We cancelled cable shortly thereafter and haven't really missed it since. Netflix streaming, though - wow. I've caught up on Heroes, watched Avatar straight through (the cartoon one), and watched half a dozen movies in the last couple of weeks that even my video store doesn't bother to carry. There's simply no comparison. And it's worth far more than $8 to me. We regularly spend more money than that on video rentals, so Netflix streaming could easily charge us three or four times that.
I can only imagine it's a loss leader for the next couple of years or something.
They are going to do an IPO with content that they don't even control well enough to provide what they say you will get when you pay...
I like Hulu a great deal but I have had a Plus account for 2 days now and nothing that I wanted to watch (older shows where they say they offer all of the seasons to Plus members) have the seasons as promised.
An easy one is Heroes, on hulu.com/plus they say you get all 4 seasons of Heroes but go to http://www.hulu.com/heroes wiht your plus account and only the last 5 episodes of season 4 is there. Not that I want to watch this series but it should be there with my super-duper new plus account that I am logged into now with and it shows on my profile that I have paid.
Given the demographics here, perhaps this might be of interest: Jimmy Jean-Louis, who plays "The Haitian" on the TV series, Heroes, is actually from Haiti (and has family affected by the quake) he runs a charity called Hollywood Unites for Haiti: http://www.hufh.org/
(I know little about the charity beyond what I read on its website but, again, thought it might be of interest to people here).
Related (via reddit.com): http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/TV/01/13/jimmy.louis.haiti/?hpt=Sbin
I haven't had Cable/Satellite since 2002. I started watching all my TV on DVDs that I bought from Amazon, but then switched to iTunes around 2006.
Now it's mostly a combination of iTunes/DVD - I'm pretty certain it's less expensive than subscribing to TV.
The good part of this (and it should be emphasized) - is that you now watch for a _purpose_ - Latest episode of Lost, BSG, Dexter, Weeds, South Park, Doll House, BtVS, Angel, The Wire, DeadWood, Heroes, The Office, Dr. Horrible, Mad Men, Parks and Recreation, Castle, Californication, Dr. Who, Kings, Sarah Connor Chronicles, True Blood, Torchwood.
Any time that might have been lost to just passively watching television, news, is now, of course, lost to passively reading ycombinator, nyt, wsj, groklaw... :-)
what if I am searching for a particular scene (say a 2 min scene), in a particular episode of heroes, in a particular season?
Video search isn't big today because there is exactly ONE use case for it: [heroes season 2]. Text search works perfectly fine for that -- you type in [heroes season 2], you will find Heroes, season 2. It is probably one of the best single domains for searching -- canonical or near canonical names for everything, with disambiguating numbers that users actually know, and built-in metadata which links all your canonical names together in a pattern users actually understand! Brilliant!
OK, so we've got Heroes season 2. Now we have the problem: do people want to pay money for it? Answer: well, no, not if they can get it free on Youtube. Piracy is Youtube's killer app. Unlike the iPod (piracy is the iPod's killer app, too, unless you think 20-somethings are filling 8 GB iPods at $1 a song), Youtube doesn't have plausible deniability or a convenient way to extract money from the pirates.
In Australia, BitTorrent is especially popular among those who want to catch up with US television shows that appear months or years later on TV down under. Money is not so much of an issue for them, they simply want to see the latest Lost or Heroes episodes.
I'd just like to reiterate this point.
As a pay TV subscriber (foxtel), it always astounds me to have seen episodes like Battlestar Galactica and Heroes advertised as "aired in the US only hours before" (those were the exact words)- for the same episodes I had downloaded and watched about 12 weeks prior.
It's not that I don't want to pay for the content, I mean, I'm a pay TV subscriber, I'm paying for eventual access to it - it's frustrating to be living in a global community and friends can be discussing an episode of one of the few shows I do watch that has already aired but due to odd licensing/distribution deals, that content is just not available legally in any timely manner, even if you WANT to pay for it.
I've already ranted on this topic many times before (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=569114 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=498159 plus others), I know lots of people who are Australians and who feel exactly the same way - its not that we don't want to pay for that content, but their bad deals are kind of forcing our hands given the communication between people moves at a much faster pace than the licensing deals.
I kind of saw the same sort of data the other day when I had looked at the Alexa top 100 by country and was interested to see mininova specifically come in at #37 (depending on how accurate you argue Alexa to be http://www.alexa.com/topsites/countries;1/AU) so seeing data like this only confirmed my initial suspicions and argument based off anecdotal evidence.
Basically, get a clue tv industry...
iTunes TV is insanely expensive, for instance I recently watched Heroes on Hulu (I had to borrow a few episodes when I fell behind because NBC "didn't want me watching" the show on a channel that made them money). Total cost to me for casual TV viewing: $0 and a few targeted adds that I liked.
iTunes wants $37.99 for a DRM'ed season, and I would need to buy three of them for $113.97. This is an absolute deal breaker, I would never buy anything that expensive with non-broken DRM on it. Actually, I take that back, I would never pay much more than about $10/season for a reasonably well produced but overall forgettable television show.
So, basically, the idea of charging for television content per show isn't going to happen unless everyone abruptly cancels their cable service tomorrow and inexplicably spends the exact same amount on TV shows al-a-carte while somehow maintaining their casual television viewing habits that make it such a golden advertising medium.
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The great majority are banned for spamming and/or voting rings. Others (like url shortening services, squidoo, etc) are banned because they're often used by spammers. Others are banned for the reasons I listed in that recent essay: linkjacking, being offtopic, or characteristically being fluff.
This is a fine essay on the importance of having a marketable concept.
That said, I'm a bit concerned that he's overgeneralizing from a biased sample set: His major examples (besides his own comic) are TV series. TV series often take time to get started; they always have. To pick some examples close to the geek heart: Star Trek:TNG had a crappy first season. Babylon Five had a very spotty first season.
There's a reason for this: traditionally, the first half-season of the typical TV show was written by a team of more-or-less freelance writers who worked from a "series bible": A big book written by the series creator that describes the characters and the setting and some of the possible plot directions. [1] They might also have had a pilot script, or even an actual pilot, to work from. But these writers would not necessarily have seen the actors performing in their roles. They might not even have known who the actors were. So their scripts would form an odd patchwork that would be stitched together by the producer, the director, and the actors on the fly. By the third season, however, things would have sorted themselves out: The producers would have found a stable of writers they like, the writers would have seen the older episodes and have some idea of how the actors inhabited the characters, there would be a canon to draw upon, and so on.
---
[1] This has changed, of course, particularly for drama series. Heroes was awesome from the first moment; most people agree that it was all downhill from season one. Other shows -- Firefly, the new Doctor Who -- also exhibit the pattern of initial awesomeness. This is arguably because the economics of TV series production has changed a lot: The rise of DVD box sets has changed the target audience and the product life cycle for TV series, and the way shows are pitched, produced, and financed has changed. And it's probably also because writers and producers have learned from the experience of shows like Babylon Five and X-Files and, later, Buffy: Show runners seem to have a greater tendency to be highly capable writers who are given much more control over the early episodes, often to the point where they will write most of those episodes personally.
The killer app for real time search seems to be in figuring out whether this week's Heroes episode is worth watching.
The series was plotted out in full before the first book was published. Some things probably changed in the rewrite, but you can't suddenly take it in a different direction without ruining the coherency of the story. (Just look what happened with the Wheel of Time, or A Song of Ice and Fire, or Heroes Season 2).
There're also little details in the prologue of book 1 that only make sense in book 5/6/7, so it's clear that she had the later books in mind when she wrote the first one.
I'm that guy too. I hate TV.
Except heroes and house. Ohhh. The daily show. Colbert Report. Gotta catch south park and sarah silverman. Six feet under was pretty good, too...
Other then that TV sucks. I watch TV shows, but have no TV. The trick is to download your tv from the internet so you can dodge the ads concentrated power scientifically calibrate to manipulate you, and still get a dose of culture and electronic sedation.
Hang on, if you're unhappy, you're obviously not going to go out socializing cos nobody wants to talk to a miserable face and alcohol will only amplify the unhappiness.
When I'm unhappy I like to be on my own and ride it out, watch tv shows online to cheer me up. So TV shows make me happy not TV makes me unhappy.
Open Question: How many hours of TV do you watch per week? I'm on around 3hrs (Heroes, Prison Break, Entourage) but all my shows are watched online without the silly commercials.
TV is evil and will turn you into a zombi...
sorry I remembered Heroes and house was on the tivo. Those shows are good. I forgot what I was thinking. Must watch more TV. TV... Must see... No... I must see it...
better technology != community killer
They could add all the bells and whistles they want, but coining something as a "community killer" (or "Digg killer" in this case) is laughable at best.
The only way Digg can be killed is if a community shows up that is in some way culturally hip. For example, if some celebrities were to band together and unexpectedly show how hard-core geeky/nerdy they can be, I'm certain it would be more of a Digg killer because they immediately will be pulling attention away for the right reason (what geek wouldn't love to associate themselves with Keanu Reeves if the real-life Neo turns out to be a automata theory junkie!?!?!). Communal value is immediately created around such an individual in the same way Kevin Rose is the focal point for Digg (I'd be hard pressed to be convinced otherwise of Kevin Rose's celebrity status).
A concrete example is del.icio.us. Yahoo! ended up purchasing del.icio.us even though, one may argue, Yahoo!'s service was technologically superior (tell me otherwise and I'll merely point to the fact that del.icio.us, prior to acquisition and for a period of time afterwards, suffered frequent outages the likes of which would cause heads to roll at Yahoo!). It's true that availability might be classified as different than "feature-set", but my counter argument would be that the reliability of ANY application contributes to the user experience in either a positive or a negative way the same way the color selection might impact the overall user experience. The community wouldn't leave del.icio.us for a reason, and so it didn't matter what technology ANYBODY (Google included) would build to try and move the critical mass away.
From where did del.icio.us originate? From the mind of an overworked quant jock working for a market maker in Manhattan; Joshua Schachter even got turned down for a job at Google, and I suppose it is up for debate that tagging has revolutionized (ala Clay Shirky) the way we interact with the amount of information we sift through on the internet, but it has definitely changed things in a rather dramatic way. The reason why I mention this last fact is because there is something to be said for hiring people that are not "optimized" enough on their resume because sometimes ideas that formulate from nowhere turn into revolutionary concepts. Similarly, I have very little faith in groups of engineers who can create technologically superior platforms to understand (on average mind you) the cultural/social aspect of WHY certain cultural phenomenon grow in the first place anymore than I would expect TV show writers to understand inductive reasoning/logic and how it relates to creating quality software.
I would place my money on a geek/nerd who spends his spare time playing with Legos to come up with the next big community than anything that would come from the minds of one of the big internet giants because chances are the geek is more in tune with a trend that is likely to catch on with his friends and then grow virally as opposed to engineered, advertising-driven attempts to create online culture. But I wouldn't at all say that such a community would be a "Digg killer" because the reasons for assembly are different, at a different time, and for the sake of a different user experience. And this type of user experience has NOTHING to do with how windows might expand or hide the way they do on OSX vs. Windows.
Social software operates on different principles of competition than does software that helps people achieve something. To illustrate further, you don't hear people in the entertainment industry make statements such as, "Is 'Heroes' Going To Be the 'Lost' Killer?" - of course not!
Social groups are very nebulous and they assemble for reasons completely different than why somebody might choose a web browser, operating system, or any other piece of software that involves achieving how we interact with computers. Social software is about interacting with others and, MOST IMPORTANTLY, the quality of that interaction.
Out of things currently airing -- Battlestar Galactica, Weeds, Heroes, in that order.
The greatest TV show of all time is Six Feet Under. If you've never watched it, you're in for the best 64 hours of visual media of your life.
http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3420704/Six_Feet_Under_season_1
We're talking about a tv show here. There is a very simple solution to this: turn it off.
It's amazing how little even good shows like Heroes matter when you miss a couple episodes.